Early 230SL-RM Sotheby’s Munich

[JamesL]

I like the colour with the interior. But appreciate it's not for everyone!

Credit for the attempt at dotology on the FI pump

Firewall... my car is much later so I may be talking bobbins again but the "disc" in the top centre (by the air-vent cowl) seems to have a bit of metal running right through it. All looks odd to me but on a car this early I have no clue

[BobH]

Some more information on this car

https://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/threads/suche-infos-zur-nr-9.1594/

https://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/threads/nr-9-lebt-wenn-auch-als-bastelbude.19891/

[john.mancini]

Heater Valve Inspection Plug is missing. Seems to be metal running through the opening. Area where inner fender welds should be looks awful. Cowl area looks bad.

[Benz Dr.]

Heater Valve Inspection Plug is missing. Area where inner fender welds should be looks awful. Cowl area looks bad.

There isn't any plug on early cars but this one has been grafted or stuck back together. The whole pinch weld area is coming apart. Whatever is going on, it's not good.

[MikeSimon]

Nothing comes up for me. I see the link, but when I click on Photos etc, nothing happens

[john.mancini]

Dash is either black, or a very dark blue. That would make sense with the turquoise interior. I don't care that it may be 230SL #9, because this car is a restoration nightmare. Someone is going to get taken to the cleaners.

[rwmastel]

There isn't any plug on early cars but this one has been grafted or stuck back together. The whole pinch weld area is coming apart. Whatever is going on, it's not good.

Dan,
You mean this area?  The new firewall pad probably came pre-cut and they tried to fill in the pad hole.  But, is this what you mean by the pinch weld?  Here we can see an area of the two parts of the car mated together, but the rest of it is covered by another piece.  I assume this is what's a mess?

[Alex D]

Appears the rear seat is sitting on some type of wood blocks?  Any idea why?   

[rwmastel]

To make people ask questions!   

[Benz Dr.]

Dan,
You mean this area?  The new firewall pad probably came pre-cut and they tried to fill in the pad hole.  But, is this what you mean by the pinch weld?  Here we can see an area of the two parts of the car mated together, but the rest of it is covered by another piece.  I assume this is what's a mess?

Yes, if you look closely at the pinch weld it should run straight across by the heater valve area. This one has both treatments meaning it appears to have both types welded in. Near the VIN tag it's bubbling out and starting to open up. Something very fishy going on in that area.   

[Tx246]

Let’s be realistic, whoever is buying this isn’t a normal W113 buyer, it is a collector that likes interesting stuff. I think the colors are cool, and period, AND something a show car could have.

Who knows if this is the car in the period film, but it sure looks like that.

Of course, it has mock ups and has been modified, that becomes “Part of the Story” of a prototype....

At the end of the day, this is a cool piece that will end up in a private museum, and almost never driven or touched.

[mdsalemi]

Let’s be realistic, whoever is buying this isn’t a normal W113 buyer, it is a collector that likes interesting stuff. I think the colors are cool, and period, AND something a show car could have.

Who knows if this is the car in the period film, but it sure looks like that.

Of course, it has mock ups and has been modified, that becomes “Part of the Story” of a prototype....

At the end of the day, this is a cool piece that will end up in a private museum, and almost never driven or touched.

Only the final auction result will tell the full tale. Some cars owned by celebrities have gotten a huge "ho-hum" at market, meaning the car wasn't driven up in final sales price nearly as the owners or assessors would have believed. As for this "celebrity owner", reported to be Dr. Fritz Nallinger, many collectors might say, "Who?"

Anyone with a bit of money can create a colored dash, turquoise upholstery, and any color outside you want. The provenance can't be duplicated however, nor can the VIN.

[john.mancini]

What am I missing here? Yes, I'm aware that it's supposedly the 9th 230SL built. It has received poor care during its lifetime. It looks like it's full of bondo and filler, (inner fender areas are awful). Who knows what lurks under the orange paint. Probably tons of rust. It's been color changed. Priced like a restored, factory 5-speed, yet it's an automatic. Prototype??? I think not. Museum piece? Really? Not any auto museum that I've been to.
Let's say some one buys this for the price that Sotherby's is estimating. You would need to spend another $200K, at least, to get this to museum quality. Now you're in for $450K to $500K for the 9th 230SL, automatic. Sorry, I don't get it.

[mdsalemi]

What am I missing here?  Sorry, I don't get it.

Meanwhile, for those with a long memory, there was a long discussion some years back when a "guest" popped up here about a very early prototype 230SL. There was a story about it that was hard to piece all together. One of those, "I'm investigating this for a friend" that often shows up in many realms. The car was in Michigan, west of Ann Arbor, and I went to take a look at it. It was a dark and stormy night. Well, a dark and stormy day. Badly lit barn.

Fast forward to last fall and I get a personal call from a guy I know who was working with the now-dead and gone International Automotive Media Awards. He was investigating (on behalf of the widow of the guy who was apparently owned it) the car and the likelihood of an eventual sale. It sounded vaguely familiar, and sure enough it was the exact same car; so the information provided to them 15 years prior was just that; information they did nothing with. I gave my contact as much as I remembered about it.

Here's the report back on "that car":

"We found a buyer for Jo’s 280SL, a California collector. He made her a good offer. She balked a bit. Then, he made her a really good offer and the deal was done. Our friend Ed Lucas brokered, and it looked like a pretty good deal to me. Ed knows just about all the collectors and what they like. That was a cool car."

I was not impressed. Neither would any of you had you seen it.

[JamesL]

If this, I wondered about the ending

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=3449.0

[zoegrlh]

Plug is missing. Looks like there is no access hole.

[john.mancini]

The question isn't, "Should this early 230SL be saved and restored"?, the question is, "Is this car, in this condition, worth the Sotherby's estimate of $250K?" Someone please correct me, but I don't think that 230SL #9 is a prototype. I could be wrong. Other than it being a very early car, it has nothing else going for it that would command such a ridiculous price. Don't be fooled by the orange paint. It did not leave the factory that way.

[Benz Dr.]

Plug is missing. Looks like there is no access hole.

There isn't supposed to be an access hole on an early car.

[J. Huber]

A couple things that have been noticed about the early cars:

Heater access hole: they didn't have one and the firewall seam is straight across.

Fact that the body and paint plate on door jam indicates a manual (10) yet the car is an automatic (12). I don't believe it is necessarily a transplant. My car is the same way (number 00871). Yet the data card and the plate on the firewall confirm its an automatic transmission (number 25). 

I have a wildly speculative theory: these cars were not built start to finish only to then get the data plates. Rather the body/chassis assembly line came first. That includes the paint code and the body number which were noted on the paint plate. Then came the engine and transmission installation -- some went manual, some went automatic. This would be indicated with the VIN plate and the stamp near the front left fender. The final brush stroke was the automatic badge on the right-hand side of the trunk...

Somebody else out there with an early 230 automatic can easily test my hypothesis!

One more thing I don't think has been pointed out: the smooth chrome shift-gate. Nothing wrong with it -- just fun to see one similar to mine.
 

[Benz Dr.]

First seven hundred 230SL's were all standard transmission. This is why early cars often have much higher VIN than auto transmission engine numbers. Auto and standard transmission engines are not exactly the same with different treatment where the flywheel mounts. MB built some auto version engines ahead of time and then used them during production as the option was requested. 

[J. Huber]

Interesting Dan. Never thought of that as I wondered just how the chassis and the transmission could be so wide apart... So that shoots a small hole in my theory -- this car shouldn't be an automatic. In any event it's in need of a ton of work. Call me crazy, I'd put it under 50k...

[john.mancini]

I fully agree with you James.

[Jonny B]

Here is a scan of the photo referenced in the Pagodentreff link.

The caption from the book translates - "Karl Wilfert had the effect of safety colors examined on the 230SL"

[ctaylor738]

Some more information here:

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mu23/munich/lots/r0017-1963-mercedes-benz-230-sl-pagoda-development-car/1388441

Cheers,

CT

[Jonny B]

That does add clarification. Thanks for the sleuthing.