Looking for a Pre-Purchase inspection in Traverse City Michigan??

[rwmastel]

Match the hardtop headliner.  I think the softtop had the same color as the hardtop on the inside??  I just bought some reproductions from Vintage, but haven't compared them to what I assume are my originals.

[BobH]

Hello Richard, have a look in the tech manual, in fact if you get used to searching through the manual you'll learn nearly everything you need to know about Pagoda ownership

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Interior/Sunvisors

[DaveB]

I believe 230 sunvisor options were light grey or light beige, matching the headliner. A brown/bronze interior would have the light beige.
may be wrong but I don’t think those seat covers are original, nor the radio.
The rust on the trunk floor is typically just surface rust.
A euro car is good because it will have a 3.75 differential, not the US 4.08. And the headlights & metric gauges look a little nicer IMO.

[DaveB]

My mistake, that is the original radio, and a nice one (though it sounds like it might need work).

These are the car’s option codes:
516 Becker Grand Prix LMKUU
565 rear seat, sideways
600 garnish mouldings on hardtop
641 whitewall tires

The reason I think the seat covers may not be original is the pleats don’t continue to the edges. Owners with original leather seats will have a more informed opinion on that.
It has a good stance with new Bilstein shock absorbers and at least some new suspension rubber.
So it might be a sound car but inspection is a good idea. And there will always be other good ones out there. Most 230s are 4-speed, and euro cars are reasonably common even in the US.

[DaveB]

I noticed it has a 280SL speedometer, or at least a 280SL reset knob on the speedometer. A little strange.
And a non-original toolkit but that doesn’t matter.

[rwmastel]

I noticed it has a 280SL speedometer, or at least a 280SL reset knob on the speedometer.

Dave,
What is different about a "280SL speedometer"?  I know about the different knobs styles for radio, fan speed, window cranks, etc., but have never heard about an odometer reset knobs difference.

EDIT:  Looking again at the photos, it does look curious to me!  Also at the bottom of the multi-gauge cluster is the dash light dimmer knob.  This one is metal and I'm 99% sure mine is plastic.  My car is up on the lift, but I'll try to get photos today, since this car is only about 280 cars older than mine, according to VIN.

[Jonny B]

The pleats on the seat were not changed until 280 SL VIN ending in 13417.

The early style trip odometer reset knob (and the rheostat) was at least in place to 1966 230 SL. I have attached a snip from a photo from Paul Phipp's car (he is the original owner BTW).

[RichardPercival]

Looking at this pic of a good 1965 car, it looks to me like the reset on rectangular gauge may be original but missing the black cap shroud that goes over it. The top of the metal shows through the black cap and looks the same as the one for sale.

The knob on the Speedo does look later - possibly just put on it rather than the whole unit changed.. The dealer said it’s TMU as the odometer was not working but now does having been repaired - whether that means replaced (with a 280 unit) or just repaired and a new black knob put on it is hard to say!!

[RichardPercival]

Here are replacement ones (not sure why gold looking?)

https://www.authenticclassics.com/Reset-Knob-for-Speedometer-mercedes-230SL-280SL-p/auth-007979.htm

I wonder if the 280 knob is completely different or just a less pointy cover introduced along with all the other softer edged items for increased safety over time.

[BobH]

Hello Richard, if you haven't looked on here before, it's a good reference site for originality, well worth a look

If you scroll down on this particular car it shows the later soft touch buttons on both the speedometer and cluster

https://www.motoringinvestments.com/1971-mercedes-280sl-906-blue/

[DaveB]

The pleats on the seat were not changed until 280 SL VIN ending in 13417.

OK I am pleased to say I was wrong about the seat covers too. They are original not replacements. The attached photo shows an identical set from this 1966 car: https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/1966-mercedes-benz-230sl-w113-43qA2g
So I kind of like the car, notwithstanding the substandard fender replacement and the potential for further rust (Brad is right, that spot above the washer pump doesn't look good). It still seems a fairly big price to me. Like most dealer cars.

I'm sure the gold appearance of those Authentic Classics replacement reset knobs is just the photo, they'd be silver color.

[rwmastel]

This is great!  I never knew about the later  thicker reset knobs!  I bet the speedo rebuilder just used what he had.  And this metal knob is just missing its plastic.

[BobH]

From what i've read, the 230's, 250's and early 280's seat covers should be pleated right to the front of the seat pad and to the top of the seat backs, these stitched pleats were introduced with the later 280's

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=30625.msg222100#msg222100

[johnk]

This car looks to have serious rust issues, some appear to be visibly hidden with fiberglass which is the worst repair one can attempt, and truly signs of shotty work. Who knows how much more rust is hidden with bondo and undercoating. The pictures miss the most important areas to look. I would absolutely stay away from this car without a thorough inspection on a lift by someone with a magnet and significant knowledge of where to look for hidden or covered rust on these cars.

[DaveB]

I see, you are right Bob, these stitched-together seat covers are later replacements. I misunderstood what Jonny was saying. If Jonny and Achim and Aaron agree on something then it is correct!
The tex endures so much better.

[DaveB]

John & Brad are probably right here. Rust hidden by new and not so good bodywork and paint.
Better cars out there.

[RichardPercival]

Thank you thelews for the rec - Don Drabik and his son Scott looked over the car for me and spent nearly 2 hours at it according to the dealer.

They have given me a lot of details and sent a couple of initial pictures before sending a full report.

Overall when I asked Don if it was a car he would walk away from or buy, he said, buy.

As we had all noted the front fenders have been replaced, however he judged this was a very long time ago possibly when still in Germany in '81. He thought the inner wings were likely original and it turned out that what we all thought might be rust on the drivers side inner was some kind of very old bondo like material that had been thinly spread inside he thought to maybe cover some of the welding, He didn't think there is rust in the fenders and that they were entirely solid though obviously not done to any restoration standard. The hood has the matching body number from the build sheet and they thought it was in lovely condition. It has a dent on the passenger side which he thought could maybe be sucked out (does anyone have experience with that?)
He sent photo of one panel gap around the hood being slightly wide, but the other side was better and the overall looked okay,

He felt the year old paint was in many ways the disapointment in that while it looks okay at 40ft, they'd only masked off and not even painted inside the door jambs - also of course no fender notches. There was also scratching on the front bumper which he thought came from someone sanding the paint who'd managed to sand the bumper top too (I'm not sure if this could be buffed out or would need rechroming..)  The color isn't correct either as it has too much flake in the mettalic compared to MB Bronze Brown. (Does anyone have experience of sanding down paint, before taking off the chrome and doing a decent respray including the door jambs as opposed to a full bare metal respray?)

The trunk rust was surface and he said that even in a full restoration you'd keep this solid trunk floor with original spotwelds not replace it - just needs cleaning up and protecting. They also didn't have a problem with the footwells which seemed solid though covered in loads of underseal. There was evidence of moisture in the footwell which was likely from the air inlet above. He thought there is a perished rubber piece in there / blocked drainage holes that need to be replaced. He also said the seals around the soft top well need replacement with a huge gap that would just let in water seen in a picture.

Underneath it is leaking oil though he said they all tend to - he thought it would benefit from the oil pan gasket being changed.
Also he mentioned changing the plastic parts as the gear shifter as they were sloppy feeling which is done through the access panel in the transmission tunnel.

[RichardPercival]

Additional images

[DaveB]

That sounds more encouraging..
I see the Drabnik shop does body restorations on period Mercedes, so their opinion should be reliable.
You didn't say anything about the running and driving but I assume that was ok.

[DaveB]

Let us know the outcome!
Yes oil leaks are common, hopefully it is only the oil pan and not the rear main seal like mine. Be aware the torque specification for the oil pan bolts is quite low, cranking them higher or uneven might cause another leak.
Yes sloppy shifting and wandery steering can most often be fixed inexpensively with new plastic bushings.
It is a shame about the paint and the overdone metallic. It would have been a cheaper and better car without the repaint. But it looks nice.

[DaveB]

I think a non-bare metal sand and repaint is a common way to go and can be fine, as long as the original metal/primer bond is not compromised and the new paint is compatible. Many cars seem to have checking through the paint and primer where the front fenders meet the bulkhead and where the rear fenders meet the body behind the rear corners of the hardtop. That would be at least one spot (four spots) to pay attention to.
Really probably better to leave it alone and just use it. Otherwise you will be over 100 thousand dollars before you know it.
If it is your car of course.

[RichardPercival]

I think you're right about the paint Dave - best to just drive it. I do think seals around the soft top box, doors and trunk ought to be replaced. I'm not sure if that's an expensive job or not!

[DaveB]

Mercedes seals are quite expensive. The seals you list might total $1000 (guessing). Aftermarket seals are available but member's experience suggests they don't fit or seal or last as well as genuine.
Did you buy the car? You still didn't say  If so, congratulations, and I hope any surprises are + not -

[RichardPercival]

Thanks Dave, just doing the financing now, but as long as that goes through then yes! 🤞🏻
I catalogued the issues with the car and they dropped 10% off the asking price. At just about 54k it’s still overpriced and I could probably have pushed for more, but life’s too short and I can afford the payments which is what matters 😂 Now just hope it’s as mechanically honest as it seems.

[rwmastel]

Richard,

Whatever happens mechanically, we'll be here to help.  I know you talked about having a mechanic, but if you're mechanically inclined at all then basic maintenance can be done by you with basic tools.  And, you'll get to know your car better and therefore be able to communicate more clearly with your mechanic about specific details, parts, or problems.

Search our Forums for discussions on shipping services in order to get your car home safely.  That is, unless you're going to be brave and take that one-way flight to Michigan and drive home!!