1969 280SL at Hyman

[mdsalemi]

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/7607-1969-mercedes-benz-280sl

Restored by White Post.

[Sead]

Asking more or less same price for my 230SL...
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=371053841
But at that price range you can ask for at least correct hose clamps insted of those from "Baumarkt" and correctly (=black) painted rocker panels...
Otherwise great loooking car.. Would remove ugly USA bumpers, head lights and side markers...

[mdsalemi]

Hose clamps are a very easy change.
Rocker panels also easy, perhaps involving a minor professional refinish.
My guess is it’s a USA spec car, thus the bumper overriders and side markers entirely correct.

As the owner of a USA spec 1969 280SL and in the USA, I like these details and wouldn’t change them on mine. That’s a bit more involved change.

White Post known mostly for their brake caliper sleeving service, adding stainless steel cylinder sleeves to brake calipers.

Someone will get a nice car here!

[lreppond]

As the owner of a USA spec 1969 280SL and in the USA, I like these details and wouldn’t change them on mine.

I agree wholehearted.  Having grown up around US spec’d cars, the over riders, side markers, headrests and headlights simply look “normal” to my eyes. 

[thelews]

Hyman was never bashful about his pricing.

[dirkbalter]

A very nice car.
But at that price I would expect a little bit more attention to originality or detail such as rocker panel color, soft-top cover fabric, fire wall pad, hood alignment...
 

[badali]

The hood alignment stood out to me.  My car is driver quality but has the factory hood alignment and is nearly perfect with no sheet metal work so I see it on other cars right away.  Although my car is not nearly as valuable since it appears more as a used car would comparably...

[mdsalemi]

Hyman was never bashful about his pricing.

Neither is anyone else these days!

[mdsalemi]

A very nice car.
But at that price I would expect a little bit more attention to originality or detail such as rocker panel color, soft-top cover fabric, fire wall pad, hood alignment...

We don’t know the restoration details precisely as that was a bespoke arrangement between the restorer and client.

I do know that at the time my car was restored, the “incorrect” firewall pad was the only one available. More authentic looking pads that match the original were non-existent. As mentioned hose clamps and rocker panels are easy fixes--in fact, my restorer used what one mechanic called "fat-a** American clamps" and when my car was in for some service once, for a small amount of time and money they were ALL changed to more appropriate euro-clamps. The soft top may or may not be original, but this appearance with all the wrinkling sure looks like either a poorly fitted replacement (it's an artistic skill not all are blessed with) or an original that's spent most of it's life in the hole so to speak. We have to assume the color and or fabric choice (regardless of anyone’s feelings here) was deliberate if a replacement, and if original so be it.

Starting with any condition driver today it would be a gamble as to whether or not one could create a car like this (details not withstanding) at the asking price…so if anything about this car (with a solid look-see and evaluation) is appealing to someone who wants it, it may be worth it. I remember quite well the parts bills from 1999-2000 when parts were a fraction of what they were today, as well as the 1,000+ hours of restoration labor...

Any restoration started today, by any reasonable restorer might have gotten some details such as hose clamps correct for sure. One thing our group here has done is codify a lot of these things and made them important, and not simply take the easy way out. Hose clamps are one of those things. Those fat American clamps are easy to find anywhere, in stainless, galvanized or whatever. The Wurth or other style Euro clamps are a bit harder to find but really not costly by any stretch, just a bit more.

This car, provided it drives correctly will present nice anywhere. A little bit of work on some details and it will really sparkle in a Concours.

[Pawel66]

Michael, agree to most of your points.

Some of the items are easy to replace, some may be agreed with customer (e.g. self locking nuts on shock absorbers or glossy black paint in the trunk).

Availability is not an excuse for me for that price.

As for the soft top: when I look at old photographs I rarely see "stretched to the limits" soft tops, most of them have wrinkles here and there.

But not fitting hood, fairly poor upholstery fit, particularly on soft top hatch but also wrinkles on seat backrests, so-so fitting glove box door and (I am not 100% sure here) so-so fitting trunk lid are just there... I am not sure if front wheel wells are finished properly, I do not see the covers there (maybe just me).

Otherwise the car looks nice and neat like practically all freshly restored cars.

I do not know the Heyman company. What is the premium for there?

[dirkbalter]

We don’t know the restoration details precisely as that was a bespoke arrangement between the restorer and client.

It doesn't matter. What matters is what a potential buyer is looking for. It also does not matter what the seller spend to restore the car. At close to 200k, I would expect a perfect or very close to perfect Pagoda.

If someone is interested and in the market for a Pagoda at that price range, I think the pagoda restored by Sead is a very good reference of what you should be looking for. Likely better than most of the ones done by the "professional shops".

(Pawel, you got ahead of me  )

[Pawel66]

(Pawel, you got ahead of me  )

You writing this - a huge compliment for me. 

[mdsalemi]

It doesn't matter.

It absolutely DOES matter! It was restored by a restorer for a client, at a specific point in time: 2007 to be exact. That's what it is, and that's how it got to be what you see. I could be wrong, but I sincerely doubt that it was "restored to sell" on spec. Hyman usually sells cars on consignment for private owners; that's their business. Is it perfect? Heck no. No Pagoda is. Not mine, not yours, not even anything sold by the best of the best restorers, or even anything by the Classic Center. They all have something missing, some flaws, or what have you.

The restoration cost also is absolutely affecting asking and sale prices. If our car's parts cost like an old MG (if only...), you may see Pagodas going above six figures, but nicely done examples are often at this price point or above. Shortly after my car was restored, I swapped my "okay" grill star and barrel (purchased for $50) for a new one. The new one cost $300. Tom Hanson told me before retirement that the last new grill star and barrel the CC sold was over $2,000. That's a measurable portion of this car's asking price...for ONE part that is frequently a part of a restoration as they are fragile and subject to pitting of the pot metal under the chrome.

Availability? Yes, it also makes a difference. Today, if you were to restore a Pagoda, you can get a proper looking firewall pad. For many years there were no proper firewall pads available. Were they available in 2007? I don't know; that's 17 years ago. I think the first proper aftermarket ones were made available through this group with some hard work by members, and if I remember correctly, both Alfred Esser and Garry Marx were involved in the project. (I still have mine in a box.)

Yes, it's strong money...and it's the asking price. It's not an auction.

Pawel, you can look at Hyman's website beyond this one car. They not only sell collectibles of all kinds, everything from a 1950 AC to a 1947 Willys CJ2A Jeep in their current inventory but the also buy and consign--but they don't restore. Their showroom is more like a museum. Some years back when the MBCA held a meeting in St. Louis, they opened their showroom for a tour, and as you might expect it was well received because of the variety of cars they had.

I posted this as merely a Pagoda for sale at a respected commercial place well known for dealing in interesting cars.

[stickandrudderman]

In all my years of working on and restoring these cars I've never yet had a customer who was the slightest bit bothered about hose clamps.
On my own car I'll just use off-the shelf stainless clamps.

[johnk]

Actually many if not most if Hymans cars are purchased by them already restored to whatever condition they are in at the time. I bought my Pagoda there and Sean, the salesman told me they buy their cars in Europe and the US  and I have seen Mark Hyman and Sean at many auctions up on the bidders floor.  Sean said they couldn’t make any money if they restored them for resale. Let someone else take the loss so they can gain, so to speak indirectly.