Author Topic: my thoughts on electric cars  (Read 2274 times)

stickandrudderman

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Garry

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Re: my thoughts on electric cars
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2024, 23:12:37 »
Colin,

Interesting perspective on Electric.  I have an full electric Volvo now for nearly three years and did the costings before buying.  With an eight year warranty, an early battery failure like you mention would be covered by warranty and their guarantee is that battery life will be at 80% at the eight year mark, meaning I still have a decent range if I still own it.  Having solar on house roof and batteries to store a decent amount of powerplus three phase for faster charging, i have not used the power grid to charge the vehicle thus an added saving estimated to be about £1000 per annum. Servicing every two years with the first five years free is a second saving, Services after that are around £175 every two years.
Im my case it is a bit of a no brainer but every person is different based on milage travelled per trip, access to free power etc. a lot of my trips are 200km runs.

Never the less, i am considering selling it and upgrading soon but holding off for the Hybrid vehicle that can do more than 100km on a single charge, something not available in Australia yet, but something that would better suit my needs and Australian long distances if conventional power is needed
« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 01:39:45 by Garry »
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

mdsalemi

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Re: my thoughts on electric cars
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2024, 00:55:22 »
We follow the Warren Buffet rule: lease assets that depreciate, and buy assets that appreciate. Therefore, the daily drivers are all leased. With our cars never getting more than 2 or 3 years old, there's never any servicing on them...just oil changes.

We are all hybrids here. We buy Fords because my wife worked for them for 30+ years so there's a small incentive to stay with it. Leases are generally 2 or 3 years tops. On the last three cars we had on lease, we did a buyout/sellback and made some money on each. My daughter won big time: her net on buying the hybrid Escape at the end of lease and selling it immediately to a dealer (CarMax) netted her USD $10K. She took $5K of that and bought down the lease on her replacement Escape, and is now paying a pittance: just about $100/month or so.

I was putting about 17,000 miles/year on my prior Ford which averaged 14-16 MPG around town, maybe 22 MPG on the highway. I now have a hybrid truck that gets 32+ MPG on the highway, and an astounding 35-50 MPG around town, which is most of my driving. I'm saving a LOT on fuel.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, for many (particularly those who do NOT have at least a Level II charge point at home) a plug in electric car needs to be a careful decision. I don't have to worry about fueling up anywhere.

I have no doubt that the electrical grid an public charge stations will be standard someday. Today they are not. Teslas are all over my neighborhood but everyone charges at home and just uses them for around town. The long distance travel is in their "other" car which is gasoline powered.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Cees Klumper

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Re: my thoughts on electric cars
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2024, 05:03:16 »
"the Warren Buffet rule: lease assets that depreciate, and buy assets that appreciate."

That's why I buy older and older daily driver cars, that no longer, or barely, depreciate, and may actually appreciate. Our Volvo C70 was a case in point: bought it in LA in 2018 for $8K, drove it 5 years and 35K miles, then sold it for $6K. Bronco II, bought for $2.5K in 2019, drove so far 30K miles, could sell today for $7K. No lease can beat that!
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

stickandrudderman

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Re: my thoughts on electric cars
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2024, 10:28:26 »
My issue with the lease model is that it facilitates the downside of capitalism. if you lease a car it must come from a well funded company that is able to provide that service; probably a company that is heavily financed itself. The more successful a company gets the more it is able to swallow the smaller companies thereby exacerbating the social problem of the great financial divide.
I've been in my part of London since 1996 and in that time I've seen no less than 30 premises within 1 mile that used to be commercial or industrial be converted to residential.
That means that there are 30 small businesses that are no longer around to provide the services they once did to the local community and the gap will be filled by the larger companies who will be employing the people who now live in the same spot that the small companies used to employ them in.
Where does it end?

mdsalemi

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Re: my thoughts on electric cars
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2024, 15:04:38 »
My issue with the lease model is that it facilitates the downside of capitalism. if you lease a car it must come from a well funded company... thereby exacerbating the social problem of the great financial divide.
...I've seen no less than 30 premises within 1 mile that used to be commercial or industrial be converted to residential.
That means that there are 30 small businesses that are no longer around to provide the services they once did to the local community...
Where does it end?

Colin, in the case of FMCC (Ford Motor Credit Company, a wholly owned subsidiary of Ford Motor Company) they get their money from a variety of sources, not the least of which is issuing bonds and other financial instruments. Anybody with a US SSN or TIN can invest in these. (N.B. typically large investors in these are pension and other funds, along with other investment operations.) Their present offerings are called the "Ford Interest Advantage Floating Rate Demand Note" which is a fancy way of saying, "it's a bond.". The rate today is 5.5%. So one could, in theory, use FMCC financing (lease or buy, the option is yours) to get your new car, while at the same time investing in these bonds thus offsetting a good deal of your financing/leasing costs. Of course you are under no obligation to use FMCC when getting a new Ford, you can go to a bank or 3rd party leasing company.

One of the larger financial services arms of a major automotive manufacturer is Mercedes Benz Financial Services (MBFS; f/k/a Daimler Financial Services.) They operate in much the same way I'd imagine. They, like FMCC, also provide dealers with financing of their dealership (renovations, etc.) along with financing the inventory.

But, MBFS and FMCC are hardly responsible for the disturbing phenomena you observe in your neighborhood. That's your local government, regional government, zoning, etc. I live in a small town of Davidson, North Carolina, pop. 15,000. We're about 25 miles north of Charlotte, a major city. We don't have ANY national franchise chains here in the restaurant sector (though neighboring towns littered with them!) That's right, no Starbucks, no McDonalds, Panera, Dunkin' Donuts etc. We only have locally owned single outlet or multiple outlet restaurants. They've kept out the dreaded national chains by careful application of zoning restrictions; for example, NO drive-throughs allowed of ANY kind--not even banks. No big box stores, and the only "major" retailer is a CVS drugstore only because they offer prescription medications.

Here in the Piedmont area of North Carolina, cotton used to be king. Davidson itself has a few old mill buildings (one of them in my avatar) that once were fabric mills. All of that is long gone, and all of these old mills have been converted to other commercial usage. The largest of them holds a large law firm and a great local restaurant, among other tenants. None of the old local mills have been converted to residential but that's quite common in other USA cities such as Providence, RI. A once thriving and bustling industry of machine tools and related there is all gone, and those old mill buildings there are all residential now.

I don't know where it ends but I'm quite sure the existence of FMCC and MBFS has little to do with it, nor does the act of leasing a car versus buying. Banks issue mortgages on properties, loans on cars, but they no sooner issue those than they bundle the "notes" and sell them off as "mortgage backed securities" and similar. When there is a local bank that issues such notes, they don't hold onto them for long.

Cees' situation with buying "pre-depreciated" older cars as daily drivers is not a model for everyone. It takes both business savvy (not everyone so blessed); as well as the ability to ferret out the wheat from the chaff, find a good car that's not been monkeyed with. Hard to tell up front whether the sump is full of "stop leak" or some other band-aid fixes to a car, and plenty of people have been royally screwed by purchasing a used car private party and not knowing enough about it. You still then, may have some service issues with older cars that not everyone can deal with. In all the cars we've leased in the past 30 years, we've paid nothing for service--zero. We've done nothing for service either; simply not enough miles to warrant worn parts or even the simple things such as brake pads. I'm guessing a total of 40-50 cars in that time frame too. If Cees put no service or parts or effort into that C70 over five years, that's great. The Bronco II has become somewhat of a cult item, hence the rise in price. But the newest Bronco II is 34 years old!

Around here, after working at Ford for 30+ years, she who must be obeyed likes NEW cars. So, it's the lease model for us. Your mileage may vary!  ;)

Back to electric: that multi-family, high density housing you note in your area of London isn't a great location to own a pure electric car today. You really need your own charge station at home. That's hardly possible in the housing you suggest, and indeed, very difficult if not impossible within the confines of major urban centers.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV