Author Topic: Stiff Return Spring  (Read 1758 times)

alchemist

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Stiff Return Spring
« on: June 06, 2024, 18:00:34 »
Hello: I noticed lately on my 1967 230SL equipped with 280L engine, that the return spring at the venturie (butter fly) was not able to return the linkages back when driven at high speed. I have to stop on the highway, set the gear shift to N, and return the linkages back manually. So I ordered a new spring from the SL shop and I received this spring in the pic attached. With the new spring installed the accelerator becomes stiff and hard to depress. It made driving the car miserable. I also replaced the spring at the firewall sent by the SL shop.
Looking at the thickness of the spring, is anyone recognize if this spring is the correct one. If not, what will be the correct one.?

Cees Klumper

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2024, 18:35:21 »
Sounds like you have other problems than just the spring - the speed of driving should not really affect whether the linkage returns to idle position. I recommend you check carefully all the linkages and make sure everything moves freely and easily, so that springs required (there's several in the system including at the firewall as you note, the venturi and the injection pump) are minimal and applying the throttle is light.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

BobH

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2024, 18:58:40 »
February 1965 230SL Automatic
UK delivered RHD
Papyrus white, blue hard top & hub caps
Blue soft top
Blue leather

Pawel66

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2024, 21:44:03 »
This spring is, I think also available from Mercedes.

But it is not the spring's fault that the linkage does not return. Something is holding it.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

Pagodateil

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2024, 22:21:43 »
I think that you ordered the wrong spring this one looks like the one that go on the accelerator linkage see in the attachement .
Pagoda passionate

alchemist

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2024, 21:20:31 »
Thank you all for your contribution. I think I got the wrong spring and you all right that linkages have to move freely. What I found out that the Venturie needs to be adjusted because the disc is sticking when it is cold and hot. I am taking it for a long drive on the highway for testing after the adjustment. I did change the spring to a lighter weight which is the original.
It seems that the SL shop is no longer in Germany, but it is operating from the UK.

alchemist

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2024, 21:18:59 »
Hi guys. I am still working on stiff venturie shaft problem. At start, I thought is the spring not able to return the linkage back to its position. However, I found out is not the spring at fault, but, the flap inside the venturie being hard to move. I removed the spring and tried to move the flap by hand, indeed it is the problem. I used cleaners and lubricants' like silicone oil, this did not help. So, I took the venturie out of the car and at the bench I tried different lubricants with no success. It seems that the shaft where the flap is bolted is jammed. So, today, I left the whole venturie soaking in a solvent tank. I did clean as much as I can around the flap, it eased up a bit but not satisfactory.
Is anyone have any hint or method to make the flap move easily. Thank you.

Cees Klumper

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2024, 22:27:39 »
I've never taken a throttle body apart but there must be a way to separate the intake butterfly from its shaft and remove the shaft to see what is causing it to 'bind'. Maybe small screws to take out, allowing the flap to be removed which in turn would allow the shaft to be removed? Maybe something about this in the tech manual. In any event, that flap / butterfly is supposed to move freely, that's for sure, and is to be adjusted in as closed a position as possible, just before binding in the opening, so that almost all the air at idle is controlled by the large screw on the throttle body. 
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

Pawel66

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2024, 13:23:05 »
If I remember correctly you have bearings on both ends of this shaft. Then on one end either cover or switch, which can be easily removed. I would vote for bearings or switch blocking rather than butterfly.

Butterfly should be binding in certain position. Are you sure you are chasing the right cat?
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

alchemist

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2024, 17:38:09 »
Thank you all for your response. My car has a manual transmission, however, it does have an electronic switch at one end of the venturie which is designed for automatic transmission. I removed it because it does apply load on the shaft. To remove the flap,. 2 screws need to be removed. They are set in stone and they are hard to remove and I do not want to damage them. I will look for the bearings and clean them. I am not sure if any of venturie parts are available on the market. Wish me well.
Note: I always spell it as Venturi, but the site it tell me it is Venturie. I guess the latter is British or Australian.

Mike Hughes

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2024, 22:56:25 »
IAre you sure you are chasing the right cat?

A friend has a cat named Bear who hangs out in the garage while he is working.  Bear is better at supervising than working. . .

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havana Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

alchemist

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2024, 19:33:11 »
Hi guys: I was able to take the venturi out of the car to the bench. I found out that the flap is sticking at the shaft on both sides. There are 2 slave type bearing on each side covered with an O ring and a washer (see pics). The flap was hard to turn even with fingers. I cleaned up the venturi with solvents and overnight soaking, which did not help. It turned out that a deposit and accumulation of materials were covering that part of the venturi interior surface for over almost 60 years of use. So, I did a drastic cleaning method by using 2 fine files, one is an oval shape, and the other is triangular. I filed the wall of the venture where the flap touches using both files and experimenting by moving the flap by finger. I also filed the edges of the flap. I emphasized on the area where the flap touches the wall, particularly, at the shaft corner on both sides. With hours of arduous work, the movement started to improve. I kept going and filing the rest of the wall area, the movement eased up to a point that the original spring can return the linkages easily. When I assembled the venturi back in the car, the measurements of the linkages had changed slightly. I started the car, the flap was fully closed, it ran well, the flap did not stick even when fully closed. I performed the linkages tour, and it checked out fine. I adjusted the air screw using a vacuum gauge which gave the maximum vacuum reading. Now all is well, the original spring is the correct spring.

alchemist

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2024, 19:34:53 »
Another pic.

Cees Klumper

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2024, 19:37:19 »
Great, glad you sorted it out.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

Pawel66

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2024, 13:45:30 »
Thank you all for your response. My car has a manual transmission, however, it does have an electronic switch at one end of the venturie which is designed for automatic transmission. I removed it because it does apply load on the shaft. To remove the flap,. 2 screws need to be removed. They are set in stone and they are hard to remove and I do not want to damage them. I will look for the bearings and clean them. I am not sure if any of venturie parts are available on the market. Wish me well.
Note: I always spell it as Venturi, but the site it tell me it is Venturie. I guess the latter is British or Australian.

I would be happy to buy this switch from you, as you most likely do not need it. I will send cover (installed, also by factory, instead of the switch) with gasket as part of the payment package. Please kindly give it a thought.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

stickandrudderman

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2024, 14:09:22 »
Butterfly should be binding in certain position.
Pawel, the butterfly should be made to bind only during the setting process. Once setting is complete there should be no binding.

stickandrudderman

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2024, 14:14:47 »
So, I did a drastic cleaning method by using 2 fine files, one is an oval shape, and the other is triangular. I filed the wall of the venture where the flap touches using both files and experimenting by moving the flap by finger. I also filed the edges of the flap. I emphasized on the area where the flap touches the wall, particularly, at the shaft corner on both sides. With hours of arduous work, the movement started to improve. I kept going and filing the rest of the wall area, the movement eased up to a point that the original spring can return the linkages easily.
Seems like it worked for you but I would never take a file to such a presicion engineered part.
Better to disassemble it properly, clean it properly and reassemble properly.
If one day your car has a new custodian and he decides to replace the throttle shaft bearings he's going to wonder why he can't achieve expected results without knowing that you have changed the dimensions of the parts.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2024, 07:57:09 by stickandrudderman »

Pawel66

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2024, 14:38:08 »
Pawel, the butterfly should be made to bind only during the setting process. Once setting is complete there should be no binding.

Yes, thank you, that is what I meant, but not expressed itproperly.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

alchemist

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2024, 21:28:40 »
I rather not, just in case if I buy another pagoda with automatic transmission. sorry.

Pawel66

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Re: Stiff Return Spring
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2024, 13:45:00 »
I rather not, just in case if I buy another pagoda with automatic transmission. sorry.

Of course, no issue, thank you.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class