Engine Bay Work Advice Needed

[rwmastel]

First off, sorry for the long post and if this post is repetitive to other old threads.

I’d like to get the Group’s help on setting some priorities for my upcoming Pagoda engine bay work.  I’m getting ready to pull the engine and transmission to have them rebuilt, along with the mechanical fuel injection pump, and I want to replace, repair, and/or clean parts and components in the engine bay while the engine bay is open.  Budget is limited, so decisions will need to be made.
 
Goal:
1. Return the car back to being a dependable driver so I can drive it to the 2025 Pagoda Fest!

Fall 2024 project priorities:
1. Replace, service, or clean parts that are much easier to do with the engine out.  Examples:  Replace firewall pad or clean sub-frame.
2. Consider doing work on systems associated to the above.  No sense in doing part of the job.  Example:  If the sub-frame mounts make sense to do, I might as well do other rubber mounts and bushings to make the car ride well.
3. Anything else that just makes sense if time/money allow.  Most of these things will have to wait for the 2025 budget!

The work I’m thinking should be done, in order based on the above priorities:
1. Cleaning and cosmetics.
   a. Clean everything possible in the engine bay.  It will be impossible with the engine back in.
   b. Clean all electrical grounds I can find.
   c. Clean all water drains.
   d. Associated, but maybe less of a priority, is to paint what I can.  Should be low cost.  The coolant expansion tank, radiator, air filter canister, battery hold-down, and power steering reservoir are good candidates.  I’m sure there’s more that I’m not thinking of.
2. Firewall.
   a. Firewall pad.  I bought a new pad.
   b. Firewall grommets.  I bought a set.
   c. Maybe examine the wiper blade motor?
3. Fuel system.
   a. With the MFI Pump being rebuilt, I want to do as much fuel system work as possible.
   b. Fuel tank.  I bought a new one from the Classic Center.  Mine was rusty when I bought the car in 2000 and I cleaned it out the best I could to get by at the time.
   c. Electric fuel pump.  I’m going to try to rebuild it with a kit.
   d. Flexible fuel hoses.  Replace with new.
   e. Hard fuel lines.  Is it OK to just leave them?  Are there connectors or clamps to be replaced?  Is there a way to leak test the lines?
   f. Isn’t there a large helical gear that drives the MFI Fuel pump?  Or, is that driving the distributor?
4. Cooling system.
   a. Water pump.  I know there are short and long options. For my late 230SL (vin ending in -018381), is the long pump preferred?
   b. Radiator.  I’m sending it out to get boiled, I assume?  Whatever the technique is called to make sure there is no mineral build up or blockage in it.  I believe it’s factory original and it worked well when the car was parked.
   c. Thermostat.  Buy a new one.
   d. Hoses.  Buy all new ones.
   e. Fan belt.  Buy a new one.  (It also turns the alternator.)
   f. Fan.  Clean and reuse the original.
   g. Fan shroud.  I am debating getting one.  Has anyone bought a 230SL-specific fan shroud, M-B original or aftermarket?  I don’t think ones from a 250SE or other cars would fit.
5. Electrical system.
   a. Wiring harness.  I don’t have the money for a new one, so mine will have to get the job done.
   b. Starter, alternator.  They were working fine before, so I assume a rebuild is fine instead of replacement.  I know rebuild kits or services for the 35a alternator are hard to find, but it’s easy to find a starter if I need one.
   c. Battery.  Buy new.
   d. Coil.  Should the old one hold up?  It’s such a basic device, how do they go bad?
   e. Distributor.  I have some new parts I got years ago, so I think I’ll try to rebuild this myself.
   f. Fuses.  Replace them all.
6. Power steering.
   a. Pump.  Do these pumps need rebuilt after sitting?  It was working fine, but has sat for over 10 years now.  Best to replace, rebuild, or just see if it works?
   b. Hoses, belt, and filter.  Buying new.
7. Rubber.
   a. Sub-Frame mounts.  With the engine out, I hope this is relatively easy.
   b. Engine mounts.  They are about 20 years old, but have little milage on them.  Will inspect before/during engine removal.
   c. Sway bar.  Replace end links and mounts.
   d. Spring pads.  Replace.
   e. Bushings for the spring/bar that connects sub-frame to leading edge of frame rails.
8. Brakes.
   a. Master cylinder.  It is probably original from the factory.  Should I replace or send it to White Post or a similar place for rebuilding?
   b. Booster.  It is about 20 years old.  It may be OK?
   c. Vacuum hose and one-way valve.  Should be OK.
9. Other.
   a. What am I forgetting?

[Pinder]

1.Definitely replace subframe mounts and also the engine mounts. might as well get a trans mount as well. it will help the geometry of the whole drive train.
2.If possible, use 2K paints for painting subframe / overflow tank etc. its more durable against oil / fuel.  you can now get it in a rattle can if you don't have spray gun.
3. paint the engine block (if the engine rebuilder does not do that for you).
4. replace all belts and hoses.
5. consider going with a new 123 distributor. save your old one to be able to switch back if needed.
6. if you have the original brake booster and it does not work or leaks, consider rebuild your existing one rather than switching it out for someone Elses rebuilt unit. i made this mistake and the new unit i got is subtly different than my old one.
7. if you rebuild the fuel pump (which is not difficult to do) get the kit that has the new armature. its a little more expensive but your pump should run well.
8. replace any grommets going into the firewall if they look old and tatty.
9. get new decals for expansion tank brake booster etc.
10. use high temp paint to paint the cast iron exhaust manifolds. they likely look rusty, and it will look good. (just my personal opinion) its much easier to paint these off the engine.

[mdsalemi]

Rodd, that is a long list of ifs, wants, maybes...and doing anything on a budget for a Pagoda is a quandary.

I'll give you the mantra I followed on my own and with the original restorer. I don't think one could argue too much with it.

1. Anything organic (that would be that which involves rubber) that's original, such as the mounts, hoses, belts, etc. should be replaced with new.
2. I gave a directive to my restorer who I think, and many others do too, did a good job. "If it needs to be replaced (or repainted, or restored, basically anything with the re- prefix) DO IT. If you THINK it needs to be re-, than that really means it does, and do it.

When I violated that mantra in #2 above on a few occasions over the past 20+ years, it came back to bite me. NEVER did I regret replacing or restoring something.

Regarding #1, before I had my car restored, and this was before you started the old Yahoo! group and before we were well organized, I did check with someone who had my restorer "pretty up" a Pagoda they had bought, part of the vetting process of my restorer. He told me they were quite anxious to get it on the road and looking pretty, so they did a partial restoration from the outside in, and neglected to do a lot of things you cannot see. He told me it was a huge mistake. Later, he then had to do mounts, shocks, and basically everything organic. So, his advice to me is work from the inside out, not the outside in.

[rwmastel]

Pinder,

2.If possible, use 2K paints for painting subframe / overflow tank etc. its more durable against oil / fuel.  you can now get it in a rattle can if you don't have spray gun.

Do you mean this 2K?  https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-s-2k-aerospraytm-high-gloss-matte-clear.html

5. consider going with a new 123 distributor. save your old one to be able to switch back if needed.
(just my personal opinion) its much easier to paint these off the engine.

I'll try sticking to original system.  It worked without problems for the first 10 years I owned the car and I already have parts for it.

7. if you rebuild the fuel pump (which is not difficult to do) get the kit that has the new armature. its a little more expensive but your pump should run well.

Is that armature in the rebuild kits from Vintage?  Do you buy elsewhere?
https://vintageeuroparts.com/product/short-style-fuel-pump-repair-rebuild-kit-280-se-sl-bosch-mercedes-w108-w111-w113/
https://vintageeuroparts.com/product/overhaul-short-fuel-pump-repair-kit-for-bosch-mercedes-280-0442201002-0010915201/

9. get new decals for expansion tank brake booster etc.

I didn't think of decals!  I always think of functionality and not cosmetics.  Since the engine and MFI Pump will look so good, and I can paint some components, then I guess I'll have to get decals eventually.  Not critical now, though.

10. use high temp paint to paint the cast iron exhaust manifolds. they likely look rusty, and it will look good. (just my personal opinion) it's much easier to paint these off the engine.

I'll add it to the list!


Michael,

1. Anything organic (that would be that which involves rubber) that's original, such as the mounts, hoses, belts, etc. should be replaced with new.
2. I gave a directive to my restorer who I think, and many others do too, did a good job. "If it needs to be replaced (or repainted, or restored, basically anything with the re- prefix) DO IT. If you THINK it needs to be re-, than that really means it does, and do it.

Yes, it is a big list and budget will really restrict what I will do this fall.  That's why I wrote about setting priorities based on the engine bay being empty!  Many things can be done next year with the car back in a running state.  I agree with your mantra about degradable components.  I'm hoping I have the cash next spring/summer to drop the rear axle and do all those bearings, mounts, and bushings.

So, his advice to me is work from the inside out, not the outside in.

Yes, I agree with working from the inside out.  I cannot afford to worry about how the car looks at this point.  I'm not doing body or interior, just mechanicals.  I was a little worried about having a pretty engine come back from Metric and having poor looking linkages, fuel lines, exhaust manifold, etc.  I'm not worried about it anymore.  I'm not doing any plating as it can easily be done later.  I just want things to work and be dependable.

[Pinder]

Rodd
I got my kit from Vintage euro parts.

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/265020251968?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=265020251968&targetid=2512152189032&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9004007&poi=&campaignid=21214286338&mkgroupid=161030074701&rlsatarget=aud-1405249128464:pla-2512152189032&abcId=9407521&merchantid=8102584&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtsy1BhD7ARIsAHOi4xZ57WayikgVlpBanuiHb7-xvl95KNaa_VI6roJsRWijmVKg8XtFI84aAgDmEALw_wcB

and yes 2k paint from Eastwood.  (the engine paint I used was 2k but did not need to do clear over it)

[BobH]

Hello Rodd, just to check, you should have the early, long fuel pump on your 66, unless it's previously been replaced with a short pump?

[rwmastel]

Bob,

I haven't pulled it off yet to look at part numbers, but I'm assuming short because it was replaced by prior owner.

[VikDasor]

Hi Rodd,

I am doing exactly the same to my pagoda at the moment and I have also written down in my notes all the same necessities that need to be done, the only different thing that I am doing is that I have 123 ignition fitted (old one in storage box now).

I am currently in process of removing the engine from the bottom so I have 90% of the ancillaries removed. My plan is to have all the ancillaries that are attached to the subframe sand blasted and then powder coated rather then using 2k paint (just my opinion). I used the 2k paint on my 107 subframe after sandblasting it in the past and but it did not hold up well but that could be due to the British weather or it just was not rightly done.
I believe that you have most things covered in your to do list but if I come across anything on my car (which is same as yours 1966 230sl Auto LHD) I will certainly keep you posted on this thread.

Also my car came equipped with a fan shroud from factory which bolts onto the radiator itself, so before you go searching for one please check your radiator for the threads, 2 M4 threads on each side.

Shock absorbers is also something to check for replacement.

[johnk]

Rod
If and when you are ready for the plating I can give you the contact information for the place in Twinsburg that several members have used for cadmium platting. For me it was $400 for everything on the car, but that was about five years ago. 

[rwmastel]

Vik,
Thanks for the fan shroud details, I'll look for the bolt holes today.

John,
Yes, if you can PM me that vendor's info, that would be great.  My only problem is that my car has never been restored, so I'm assuming some plated parts have lost all their color and I wouldn't know to include them in the work.  How does one know all the nuts, bolts, brackets, and little things that should be plated?  Motoring Investments photos?  Factory photos?  Rely on members by providing MANY pics to a discussion thread here?

Thanks.

[VikDasor]

Hi Rodd, please see picture below of the fan shroud bolts.

[rwmastel]

Hi Rodd, please see picture below of the fan shroud bolts.

I got the holes/nuts!

[mdsalemi]

...so I'm assuming some plated parts have lost all their color and I wouldn't know to include them in the work.  How does one know all the nuts, bolts, brackets, and little things that should be plated?  Motoring Investments photos?  Factory photos?  Rely on members by providing MANY pics to a discussion thread here?

Basically YES to all of that. There's no one definitive source.
Every nut and bolt was plated originally. Usually zinc, just like you get on any nut and bolt today. It's almost impossible to find these small fasteners without some kind of protection on them; even if it's black oxide.

The COLOR you are talking about are those items that may have received some special plating--the fuel injector lines, for example, were originally cadmium plated with a phosphate wash giving them a yellowish color. I've seen some painted a garish metallic gold, some untouched, some plated in Zinc, etc.

Since you are not doing a Concours quality restoration--I'm sure that is not your goal, small fasteners that are old and rusty should be replaced. You don't re-plate an M4 nut or screw for example, you replace it. There are plenty of sources for metric fasteners (they are all metric to the best of my knowledge) including Amazon, BelMetric, and even your local home center and hardware stores.

Anything rusty will only get worse and make it that much more difficult to work on it in the future. FWIW on all non-structural items on my car, I replaced fasteners with stainless steel where possible. So, for example, all the fasteners holding on my bumpers are stainless. Strength isn't really an issue there. Stainless isn't as strong as carbon steel and certainly not nearly as strong as grade 8 fasteners.

Document everything you take apart with notes and photos so you know how to get it back together, correctly and in the right sequence.

[VikDasor]

I got the holes/nuts!

Perfect. You may already have this information but if you need any pictures of the shroud then please let me know as it’s currently out of the car.

[johnk]

Plating Perceptions in Twinsburg. Ask for Randy. If you going to do it send him parts in the early stages of you project as it can take a while for him to fit them in.

There should still be a post in the site where I asked for help in identifying what gets yellow cad and what gets silver. As usual, great help from everyone.

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=27158.0