Outer valve spring 110-053-01-20 WARNING

[russelljones48]

I've now received the wrong "superceded" part from 2 vendors: FCPEuro and Bud's.  It appears that Mercedes has superceded the 0120 outer valve spring with a part number that is both .100 wider and about 1/8" shorter.  Obviously it won't work.  In addition to the warning to watch out for this problem, I'm trying to find the correct part for a reasonable cost - I've been quoted $40 per spring but for a $10 spring I find that outlandish..  Any help will be appreciated but having had 2 failures at this point I'd like to find a vendor who will measure the springs before shipping them to me..  We're now faced with delaying the head rebuild because I can't get the valves and don't want to reuse the originals..  or does anyone know of a genreic spring that will fit the bill?

[Pawel66]

I am checking M130:

Inner spring part number is A 130 053 00 22 with a note:
As of engine: 981 10/50,20/60 000012 ALSO INSTALLED ON 000010 981 12/52,22/62 000109 ALSO INSTALLED ON 000005, 000037, 000045, 000053, 000079, 000085, 000088, 000092, 000095- 000102, 000106,

Then outer: A 110 053 01 20 with a note:
ELIMINATE 108 053 00 22,INNER VALVE SPRING FOR MODEL 980,984 UNTIL PRODUCTION STOP,FOR MODEL 981 UP TO ENGINE SEE FOOTN.1
   
001 Up to engine: 981  10/50,20/60 000011 EXCEPT FOR  000010, 981  12/52,22/62 000108 EXCEPT FOR 000005,  000037,  000045,  000053,  000079,  000085,  000088,  000092,  000095-  000102,  000106,  983  10 004596, 983  12 007229

I do not see any "superceding", I just see recommendation to eliminate inner spring on certain engines.

Both part numbers of the inner and outer springs are available at Mercedes for $10 or less (at least here in Europe). I would not look for them anywhere else.

It is a different story when you talk about M127 for 230SL.

Original part number for outer spring is A 180 053 08 20, replaced by A 108 053 00 20, replaced by A 180 053 10 20 and finally A 108 053 02 20, which was about $50 at Mercedes, but I see it NLA now. All different part numbers than the one you mentioned.

[russelljones48]

Pavel,

Thank you for the info..  it may help me as I try to sort this out.  Here's what I ordered for the outer spring
Original part number:   
110 053 01 20
Mercedes Car:   230SL Mercedes-Benz w113 Pagode
Used in:   Timing
Chassis:   W 113.042
Engine:   127.981
The springs from 2 sources (Bud's and FCPEuro) here in the States have been labelled with that number but are not the correct spring.  It's my understanding that both of those parts suppliers order through the or a Mercedes dealer.  They have a yellow and deep red paint stripe on them.. 
As a consequence, I am hesitant to order from any other source since I beleive the Mercedes dealers are sourcing the wrong part. 

[rwmastel]

t's my understanding that both of those parts suppliers order through the or a Mercedes dealer. 

Do the parts arrive in Genuine Mercedes parts boxes?  Post a pic of a box.

[Pawel66]

Pavel,

Thank you for the info..  it may help me as I try to sort this out.  Here's what I ordered for the outer spring
Original part number:   
110 053 01 20
Mercedes Car:   230SL Mercedes-Benz w113 Pagode
Used in:   Timing
Chassis:   W 113.042
Engine:   127.981
The springs from 2 sources (Bud's and FCPEuro) here in the States have been labelled with that number but are not the correct spring.  It's my understanding that both of those parts suppliers order through the or a Mercedes dealer.  They have a yellow and deep red paint stripe on them.. 
As a consequence, I am hesitant to order from any other source since I beleive the Mercedes dealers are sourcing the wrong part.

The part no. A110 053 01 20 is not for your engine. You need the part number I provided for M127981. As simple as that. I would have thought your suppliers are sourcing the wrong part rather than Mercedes. They way to talk to Mercedes is to give them engine number or vin number. Maybe that where confusion came from. You do get proper A110053 0120, it is just not fitting your engine as it is not for your engine.

Why would you buy from Mercedes through third parties? They give you discount vs. MB list price?

The way it would work here is that if you talk to MB dealer, they will offer all available substituting parts. If they do not fit, MB would tak it back.

Perhaps someone can double check if I am right as for the part numbers.

[russelljones48]

Metric Motors has confirmed that this is a Mercedes SNAFU.  They have the correct outer spring

[Pawel66]

What is SNAFU?

[AndrewB]

Situation Normal All F@cked Up - it is believed to be a term that originated in the US Marine Corps during WWII

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNAFU

[Pawel66]

I see, thank you! 

Well, I do not think so in this case.

I will check with the dealer if they recommend later outer spring to replace earlier outer spring - because I guess this is the question here. I am more like: vendors confabulating to sell something and cover their mistakes. Could be I am wrong of course.

[Pawel66]

I have received answer from Mercedes: the outer valve springs for M127 are not interchangeable with outer springs for M129 (or the only springs) nor outer for M130 - different parts, different part numbers, not listed as substitutes in any system.

If you were offered A 110 053 0120 for M127 - it was simply the wrong part offered.

I also received additional info on availability:

A   108 053 02 20 – ca$50 (6 pcs available in Germany), that is the one for M127
A   110 053 01 20 - ca$7 (available in Germany), that is for M129 and M130

Does not look like Mercedes SNAF to me...

[russelljones48]

Pawel, I'm not sure and this may be a difference between MBUSA and their European counterparts.  What I am attempting to do is warn our members that I have ordered the springs from 2 reputable US sources and received the wrong parts.  I have been told by 2 of 3 vendors that it's an incorrect part number substitution by "Mercedes Benz" and something that happens occasionally.  here's the quote from the source I just ordered my 3rd set from: "On occasion the Mercedes “sub to” references are not correct… this is one of those occasions. We do have the correct outer valve springs for the M127.981 230SL … cost is $32.00 ea x 12 = $384.00 set"

My personal experience has been that EU sources for MB parts have more accurate and complete inventories but the uncertainty and potentiail additional delay aren't acceptable for my project right now. 

Simply said: I'm letting the members know of the issues I've found here with this part and that they should double check (i.e. have the spring measured) before wasting time and effort.

rj

[mdsalemi]

...it's an incorrect part number substitution by "Mercedes Benz" and something that happens occasionally...but the uncertainty and potential additional delay aren't acceptable... 

I'm here to tell you that over the years, MB has most certainly discontinued some parts and substituted what they think may be acceptable replacements but that's not always the case. Too many stories to tell, but it's a fact. Someone sitting in an office somewhere with little knowledge of a part of how it works or fits on a 50-60 year old car isn't the one to be making these judgments but my suspicion is that's precisely how this situation occurs. Even some parts that are not substituted, but have gone NLA and then are reintroduced are not always correct or exactly what you may expect. The resellers or vendors, well I don't think they are intentionally selling the wrong parts. They are relying on information from the Classic Center.

I have had a lot of international shipping experience, with and without the group here. Anyone in UK or EU who has the parts in stock, packs and ships them in a timely fashion, and sends them even with a discounted service such as UPS or DHL, will have the parts on your doorstep in a week after shipping...MAYBE 10 days if there are holidays or delays. Took me nearly as long to get some in-stock parts from Autohaus AZ.

[Pawel66]

Pawel, I'm not sure and this may be a difference between MBUSA and their European counterparts.  What I am attempting to do is warn our members that I have ordered the springs from 2 reputable US sources and received the wrong parts.  I have been told by 2 of 3 vendors that it's an incorrect part number substitution by "Mercedes Benz" and something that happens occasionally.  here's the quote from the source I just ordered my 3rd set from: "On occasion the Mercedes “sub to” references are not correct… this is one of those occasions. We do have the correct outer valve springs for the M127.981 230SL … cost is $32.00 ea x 12 = $384.00 set"

My personal experience has been that EU sources for MB parts have more accurate and complete inventories but the uncertainty and potentiail additional delay aren't acceptable for my project right now. 

Simply said: I'm letting the members know of the issues I've found here with this part and that they should double check (i.e. have the spring measured) before wasting time and effort.

rj

I understand.

That is why I am providing correct parts numbers for particular engines, confirming there is no substitution. I would have thought it is support for your point or at least it was meant to be. If it came out differently - sorry!

If it is Mercedes misinformation or not - that is another story. I think we should be factual. Next time someone will assume something is Mercedes' mistake and it will lead to a wrong decision. We should be careful interpreting data from Mercedes and we should be careful what the vendors are claiming.

So again on your point:
A   108 053 02 20 – ca$50 (6 pcs available in Germany), that is the one for M127
A   110 053 01 20 - ca$7 (available in Germany), that is for M129 and M130

[russelljones48]

thanks

[mdsalemi]

So again on your point:
A   108 053 02 20 – ca$50 (6 pcs available in Germany), that is the one for M127
A   110 053 01 20 - ca$7 (available in Germany), that is for M129 and M130

So let me reiterate: ...Anyone in UK or EU who has the parts in stock, packs and ships them in a timely fashion, and sends them even with a discounted service such as UPS or DHL, will have the parts on your doorstep in a week after shipping...MAYBE 10 days if there are holidays or delays...

[russelljones48]

Further update and hopefully the last needed.  Metric Motors has supplied yet another spring (at least based on the color coding on the part).  I have spoke to them and although the dimensions are NOT the same as the original spring, I'm assured they work for the M127.  The key dimensional difference is in spring free length.  The MM spring is approximately 80 thousands shorter than the stock ones that were removed.  I am assured that these spings work properly when installed and that the spring pressures are quivalent to stock specifications. 

Just so we're clear on conclusions here: all of the outer springs I've received have been ordered and are listed as the proper MB outer spring part number..    MM was the only vendor able to confirm that their version of the spring has been fitted to 127 heads and tests and works properly.