Pagodafest 2025?

[Mike Hughes]

Lime Rock.

[sandcrab59]

Thats correct.

[Jordan]

There is also the Watkins Glen Grand Prix Festival in early September.  Vintage car racing all weekend. https://watkinsglen.com/grandprix-festival/

[mdsalemi]

ALL THESE suggestions of various places aiming towards "the east" are all well and good. Every place has its charms, even Cleveland as Mike Simon has suggested. 

Lime Rock, CT in Salisbury (Lakeville) CT
Niagara Falls, St. Catherines Ontario/New York
Pittsburgh, PA and the Vintage Grand Prix
Oley, PA (near Allentown and Philadelphia) and the Deutsche Classic
North Jersey and in concert with June Jamboree

These were just recent suggestions by members.

Some of your board had privately discussed places such as Charleston SC or Asheville, NC. However, as the past month has indicated, hurricane season in the SE USA is vastly unpredictable. You may have nothing, or you may have horrific devastation. The Gull Wing Group meet was scheduled for Asheville the week of Hurricane Helene. Asheville will be reeling for years from the destruction. Many are still without power and water for those that still have homes, and schools are yet to re-open.

Another area recently offered is the west coast of Michigan, perhaps in concert with the Gilmore Museum https://gilmorecarmuseum.org and incorporating driving tours on part of the Great Lakes Circle Route https://www.glc.org/work/great-lakes-circle-tour. The driving section in the SW corner of Michigan is spectacular. The Gilmore also has an Oktoberfest event.

So as you can see, there's NO SHORTAGE of great places to hold an event, and frame the event to the locale. There's also no shortage of members offering up places and locations to add to the list...

...but what there does seem to be a shortage of is members willing to step up and organize something--NOTHING will happen if this doesn't happen. Chicago area member Frank K championed the 2023 PagodaFest, and we put together a team of locals and those distant to help out. There's no substitution for local "boots on the ground".

So, who knows any of the aforementioned areas well enough to raise their hand?

BTW, organizing an event that leans towards more social than technical is far easier to assemble than a technical event...did none of you organize a party for your kids, your parents or something similar?

[Jack the Knife]

I will organize something here if there is willingness to come to Florida.

In my eyes, it would behoove the club to go to places where not only is it convenient for the membership (I understand the inconvenience of Florida to many members), but where there is a potential target audience for club expansion. I also understand that many cars are 'put away' for the winter, but that does not stop the numerous car events down here from taking place -- granted, a great many owners here are also residents, though that is not always the case. Some are just retired enthusiasts who follow the show circuit and enjoy the socializing.

Most events here take place in the wintertime. Some that come to mind:

Palm Beach Concours (December 6-8, Palm Beach)
100 Years of Cars (January 18, Hobe Sound)
Cavallino Concours (January 23-26, Palm Beach)
Cars on 5th (February 8, Naples)
Hagerty Cars and Caffeine at Sebring Raceway (February 23-25)
Boca Concours (February 24, Boca Raton)
Amelia Concours (March 3, Amelia Island)
St. Petersburg Motor Classic (April 7, St. Pete)
Wheels Across the Pond (April 19, Jupiter)

And there are so many more. These are just the ones I can recall and the ones I typically go to. Heck, here in Vero, we do an annual event at McKee Jungle Gardens in early February that has had outstanding attendance. They are looking for a theme for next year. This past year was hot rods, which in my opinion stunk, but it had excellent attendance anyway. '23 was excellent with some of the heavy hitters from Jupiter Island and Palm Beach even driving up. Could be vintage Mercedes? That year, the VBMA had a wonderful exhibit on Art Deco cars. I believe even some club members here went to it. There is a big audience here potentially for cool and classy cars, namely convertibles, which our cars are.

We should think about putting our cars in their romantic and proper setting, which would do the club well by attracting inspired owners. Just like seeing all those Ferraris parked on the Breakers Golf Course, or when I first saw a Pagoda parallel parked on Worth Avenue in front of Taboo.

And for the record...

... major storms happen in late August to mid-October. This is when 3/4 of the total storms to ever impact Florida have occurred, with 1/3 of the total storms occurring in September. The tourist season here is what it is largely because of the fairly predictable weather. Storms of any sort in the winter and spring here are exceedingly rare.

[mmizesko]

I think the Goal would be inclusion and people willing to manage the event.  I think it needs to be in the east. Florida is a long haul for most of the Northeastern folk to drive, and driving through the Mountains in snowy Winter months to get there would be an issue.  Coastal Carolinas would be great, and my original suggestion of Charleston was to be held in April or May, without risk of Hurricanes and before the kids got out of school, since family beach vacations are usually after memorial day.  Florida has lots of Pagodas, so luring them for an 8-10 hour drive would mean somewhere in the Carolinas or Georgia. We should also consider the number of European members who came to Chicago with spouses, who extended their trip to include tourist or resort destinations.

I do think some local folks need to step up if we are to have an event, and I think we should be flexible as to Spring or Fall to get the most people (35-50 cars with a 8-10 hour drive) to attend.  Just my two cents.

Mike

[zoegrlh]

We have had two events in Virginia, the 50 anniversary event, and the PUD near Charlottesville. My vote would be somewhere on the eastern seaboard. A city that has a lot of things to do and see, instead of just kicking tires. I would have it back in Williamsburg, but know Savanna or Charleston have promise.  Be glad to help out.

[rwmastel]

A city that has a lot of things to do and see, instead of just kicking tires.

I miss the old PUB days where kicking tires was the first 5 minutes and it got much more in depth from there.

[sandcrab59]

I agree with Rodd, bring back the PUB days.
Tom

[DavidAPease]

I, too, would enjoy a more technical get-together (like the old PUBs).

             -David

[rwmastel]

I, too, would enjoy a more technical get-together (like the old PUBs).

It would fun to do a PUB Crawl.  To the Youths, that means having drinks in a long series of bars.  I'm thinking, if we had enough skilled members (people with knowledge, tools, a lift or two) in one town, we could have each of those members set up to help with specific things.  If there were 4 stops, all attendees would be divided into 4 groups and sent out to the stops, spend 2 - 3 hours at each stop, and rotate stops in a given sequence.  One stop might be engine tuning, another interior/exterior cleaning & preservation, a third analyzing factory original/correct items, a forth something else.  Whatever, we'll make it up.  Maybe a vendor/sponsor could be a stop.  Different drinks & food at each stop, so no need to organize a big meal at a restaurant.  Spouses not interested in the garage talk could have their own living room or back porch conversations.  Gardening, interior design, fashion, wine knowledge, vacation travel, etc.  This way, each stop/host only has about 10 cars and 15 people at their place at a time, but it would be a long day.  That would be 1 day of Pagoda Fest, and then back to the hotel.

[zoegrlh]

PUD was a lot of work for Joe Alexander to release this workload on him, we started moving PUD around. I was on the BOD back then, knowing the 50th Anniversary was coming around. We decided to move PUD to a more of a conference setting, with tech sessions and social sessions etc.  We wanted more participants, so the BOD voted to hold 50th in Williamsburg. We got 60+ members that year.  Even at the second conference held at Tom’ Sargent’s farm, great success in this event with tech sessions and a lift set up just for the event, and of course Joe there giving expert experience. The old PUD at Joe’s could only handle a few members. The idea now to have two locations/garages to have a PUD, don’t think is a good idea. Again participation is the driving force. Back then the thought was to move the PUD conference around the country, ie. East coast, middle America, west coast.  I still think this is the way to go. I enjoyed meeting 60+members at the 50th. I agree there are a lot of new members that have many technical questions about their Pagodas, as proof on this site. if our club is to excel as did the 190SL club or the Gullwing club, we need conferences, if not every year, every two years. The club has come a long way since the those days as a group, the BOD has moved the club to a status with the other clubs mentioned. Job well done BOD. We need members to step forward and put a convention together. We have a 6 or 7 month window. Again I would be glad to share what we had to do for the 50th at Williamsburg.

[rwmastel]

Robert,

My idea, which would only work if a very specific set of geographic and demographic resources came together, was a solution to get 1 day of deep, hands-on technical content into a multi-day Pagoda Fest event.  Not to replace the entire Pagoda Fest with the old PUB (not PUD) event.  Oh, and I believe we had 50+ members at a couple PUBs, I'm not sure what your recollections are.

Also, if the aim is to be as established and robust as the 190SL Group and others, we better step up our convention format.  Check their convention schedule.
https://www.190slgroup.com/pic_stry/2024/Granville/24-Granville.htm

[Peter van Es]

Please note that you are comparing the 190SL group, which -- while it claims to be international -- is organising a National convention -- with an annual meeting. It has regions and regional officers. It is much more strongly organised in the US than we are.

The Pagoda SL Group is truly international. This has the side effect that an event organised in a particular continent has to be self-supporting, i.e. cannot be paid for out of dues paid by members that are not likely to be able to attend such an event. All the events we have organised (in Europe, multiple times now), Australia, and the US (also multiple times now) have largely been self supported and paid for by the attendees only.

The difference in geography (read: driving distances) has a large effect on the kind of things you can organise. In Europe, most people can attend the event in less than 2 days driving. This year, because of the central location most people had less than 1 driving day to get there and get back. Our events in Europe are designed around that.

I tend to think that if we tried to organise a week-long event in the US, we'd probably get fewer attendees, rather than more. But I might be mistaken...

[rwmastel]

If our club is to excel as did the 190SL club or the Gullwing club, we need conferences, if not every year, every two years. The club has come a long way since the those days as a group, the BOD has moved the club to a status with the other clubs mentioned.

Peter,

I was responding to Robert's comment, quoted above.

Your points are well taken.

[Jack the Knife]

Wow, the 190SL group had quite a convention. I didn't expect that. I admire their format.

Does anyone have figures of the 190SL group membership vs the Pagoda group membership? Might be wise to look into the idea of regional event planning like Peter said. I stand by the idea that it would benefit the club to host an event in Florida with the club's support.

[Peter van Es]

I stand by the idea that it would benefit the club to host an event in Florida with the club's support.

If you mean by that that the Pagoda SL Group should foot part of the bill, that is exactly what we can't and won't do. Organising an event needs a "local hero" and then other Board members typically jump in with support, advice etc.

[Jack the Knife]

If you mean by that that the Pagoda SL Group should foot part of the bill, that is exactly what we can't and won't do. Organising an event needs a "local hero" and then other Board members typically jump in with support, advice etc.

I understand the club not paying for events considering the "fairness" aspect to members way outside the range of the event. But what would be helpful to me would be the leadership here approving procedures for how an event ought to be hosted and how these events have typically been hosted in the past. And I might advise a change in diction... rather than stating "this is what we can't/are unwilling to do," rather it be "this is what we *can*/want to do".

As an aside, other than webhosting, what are the dues intended to be spent on?

[zoegrlh]

I agree with Peter, when we planned the 50th at Williamsburg, there were no monies requested from the club. The staging of the event was a gamble to at least meet the outlay cost with attendance fees. It did meet those cost, so that the host was not left with a bill to pay. Most hotels that cater to conventions need a small deposit for setting aside convention room( if they get a guarantee number of hotel rooms, then they will give you the convention room free. Only thing to then do is to get vendors, speakers, tech sessions and topics, places of interest to see and do for non tech-ers, restaurants lined up for dinners, and a program of the event. I do agree with Peter, that regions should be established and let the regions start planning events in their area.  These regions could be sub areas of the three mentioned - East coast, Middle America, West coast.  Other car clubs do this (ie. MBCA, AACA, 190SL, etc.). We have had many members attend the European events and the Ohio PUB events at Joe’s. No reason the these regions can do plans for the smaller events and let the members pick and choose which to attend. And yes I do agree with remaster, tech sessions are a must. Mmizesko suggestion to seek people to manage an event.  You could have several events at same date in some cases. Locally we have what is called the DWM session (Driveway Mechanic session), where as a local member host a Saturday of technical help for our MBs, much like Joe did with PUB.

[mmizesko]

Jack,

It sounds like you are just the right guy to lead a Florida Regional event. There are many folks in the group that do the same thing in their respective geographic.  There is a great event in Pinehurst NC in the May time frame, The folks in Ontario, Canada are great at it, Folks in Southern California do the same thing.  These attract a dozen W113's at each typically. I'm sure there many Pagodas in South Florida alone to field a nice event.

A Florida National Pagodafest, in my opinion, is just too remote to ask people to drive from most East coast population centers. The venue is a very long drive from the Georgia Line.  In selecting a venue, we search our membership location by region and try to be as inclusive as possible.  Thus, our hope to find a Atlantic venue around the Carolina or Mason-Dixon line areas.  Ultimately, we need local members to plan and run the event, which would attract 40 or 50 Pagodas and 100 -125 people.

As for dues, most goes to publishing 2 beautiful Pagoda World Magazines per year, and mailing costs to domestic and international members.  PagodaFests are all break-even events.  The group advances funds for venue deposits, but to keep our tax exempt status, all ticket sales and sponsorships are channeled through the SL113.org Treasurer.

Our forum and data repository is our largest asset.  When our group started. Peter Van Es contributed both his talent and time to establish what we have today.  To replicate what we have, should there be technical obsolescence or if Peter would not be able commit his resources, would easily cost $50,000 to $100,000 , using standard commercial IT houses.  In fact, we are currently trying to find ways to alter and expand the content available to our members.  It would not be an easy transition.

Jack, I would urge you to peruse the Events section of the Forum to track down other regional events that have been held by our members, and initiate a plan for your own South Florida event.  PM me if you want to discuss further.

Thanks for your enthusiasm.  You would do a great job.

Regards,

Mike Mizesko.

[Jack the Knife]

Jack,

It sounds like you are just the right guy to lead a Florida Regional event. There are many folks in the group that do the same thing in their respective geographic.  There is a great event in Pinehurst NC in the May time frame, The folks in Ontario, Canada are great at it, Folks in Southern California do the same thing.  These attract a dozen W113's at each typically. I'm sure there many Pagodas in South Florida alone to field a nice event.

A Florida National Pagodafest, in my opinion, is just too remote to ask people to drive from most East coast population centers. The venue is a very long drive from the Georgia Line.  In selecting a venue, we search our membership location by region and try to be as inclusive as possible.  Thus, our hope to find a Atlantic venue around the Carolina or Mason-Dixon line areas.  Ultimately, we need local members to plan and run the event, which would attract 40 or 50 Pagodas and 100 -125 people.

As for dues, most goes to publishing 2 beautiful Pagoda World Magazines per year, and mailing costs to domestic and international members.  PagodaFests are all break-even events.  The group advances funds for venue deposits, but to keep our tax exempt status, all ticket sales and sponsorships are channeled through the SL113.org Treasurer.

Our forum and data repository is our largest asset.  When our group started. Peter Van Es contributed both his talent and time to establish what we have today.  To replicate what we have, should there be technical obsolescence or if Peter would not be able commit his resources, would easily cost $50,000 to $100,000 , using standard commercial IT houses.  In fact, we are currently trying to find ways to alter and expand the content available to our members.  It would not be an easy transition.

Jack, I would urge you to peruse the Events section of the Forum to track down other regional events that have been held by our members, and initiate a plan for your own South Florida event.  PM me if you want to discuss further.

Thanks for your enthusiasm.  You would do a great job.

Regards,

Mike Mizesko.

I appreciate the detailed reply, Mike -- I'll look into those other events.

I've seen that there are quite a few Pagoda owners around my parts and further south who simply aren't part of the group at all for all kinds of reasons, often ignorance of the group or else they just come on here to get tech support (more likely than not, their mechanic might be on here . . .), and while I see these cars out-and-about throughout the year, I never see them at events. Relatedly, here's an idea... I'm having some postcards of my garden made (chose old linen texture 100lb cardstock from Neenah cut 4x6, so more of a period-correct postcard for our car, postcrossing is another one of my hobbies), and I was intending to put the SL in the middle of the driveway for the front elevation. Would be cool to print off a few of these and keep some with me to proselytize the club, maybe leave one under the wiper of the Pagodas I see around. Anyway, there's more than a few dozen around, with about five regulars in my zip code. I will work on trying to gather up a Florida cohort. Relatedly, I've seen that as an issue in other clubs I've been in, not just cars, that there's sensible regional blocks within most of the country excepting a few outliers which have to be more self-sustaining... namely: Texas, Florida below the Ocala latitude, and the Pacific Northwest broadly. I've spent some time in Bozeman lately and they (Montana broadly, that is) have to be pretty self-sustaining as far as events go, because who is going all the way up there and from where? Ah, and then there's Hawaii, which is a whole other can of spam. These other areas named are often left out of namely car shows where there is a national club unless some huge concentration of owners live there. And I get why, I truly do...

Looking at the memberlist, there are a lot of members, may of whom have never participated in the forum or maybe come on here just to read a few things in the TM but don't look for posts about anything, never minding events. By my reckoning, there are 134 members in Florida, with 83 or so of them being full members. That's actually more than I expected. Well, come the winter (and when I get my nice plated parts back), I'll try my best to do some outreach amongst our fellows here and get something going. It would just be nice to do so with, say, the blessing of the Club, if there is such a thing, rather than it just be that-guy-in-Florida's event.

Also, thanks for the enlightenment on where dues go. I won't get any more off-piste with that.

[Lorsar]

We do have a template "business card" document that you can download and print.

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Main/LogoDownloads

[Jack the Knife]

We do have a template "business card" document that you can download and print.

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Main/LogoDownloads

Nifty!

I downloaded this, thanks.