Seat Belts--Very Sad Story

[mdsalemi]

Gents,

Many of our cars have seat belts, but many of the older and Euro versions do not.  I know most good intentioned owners strive for good seat belts, but often times it is far down on the list...here's a sad story I came home to, to perhaps rearrange that list.

In yesterday's Detroit News:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/metro/0508/01/B01-265648.htm

was an article about a local automotive restorer, who had just completed a 1931 Duesenberg worth 1.5 million dollars; he did the work for a local car collector.  He took his family out for the proverbial quiet Sunday drive, on a quiet road.  Someone in a new Volvo ran a stopsign, broadsided the Duesy, rolling it more then once, killing the mother, father and one of the three children in the car with them.  Two of the kids survived.   No seatbelts.  It can happen anywhere at anytime.  Of course the driver of the Volvo wasn't hurt.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[rwmastel]

I am one of those running this risk.  My Italian car does not have seat belts and I believe never did.  They were optional at the time and place of the car's original sale.  I take this warning to heart and will move the costly (relative term!) seatbelt option up on my to do list.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[JimVillers]

My wife would not drive with me until in installed THREE point seat belts.  They are not original, do not look attractive but they are functional.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[erickmarciano]

Michael , would a judge renove point if the car should not have seatbelts?
on my euro the first thing I did was install headrests and seat belts

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

[mdsalemi]

According to our friend Pete Lesler, safety related items such as seat belts are NOT deducted in MBCA Concours.  They have not been deducted on my car.

For those that do not know this already, MB issued a technical bulletin in the early 1970's and procedure (Houston, we have a problem...)for installation of 3-point retractable seat belts properly retrofit into a 113.

This is what I have.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[JimVillers]

Erick .... None of the major car clubs will dedeuct for well done modern safety features.  The AACA even requires the addition of safety items like an installed fire extinguisher.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[enochbell]

Thanks for the sobering warning.  I admit I have driven for 6 years with a passenger-only lap belt, despite having the other belt "safetly" stored in my parts box (my wife, having much better judgement, would not step foot in the car without one on her side).  I seem to recall an early race car driver who refused to wear a belt when he drove his magnesium-bodied car (don't recall the driver or the car), saying he would rather be thrown free than burn in that rolling inciniary device.  It is amazing how macho-rationalization can make poor judges of some of us, including me.    OK, I'll put the driver's belt in tonight.  What does it take...like 15 minutes?  Thanks.

Greg

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[n/a]

Michael, you mentioned a 1970 technical bulletin for retractable seatbelts.  Do you know where I can get this?

Thanks!

Joe

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by ouzo996

Michael, you mentioned a 1970 technical bulletin for retractable seatbelts.  Do you know where I can get this?

Thanks!

Joe

I will look to see if I still have it; if I do I will scan it in high-res and either post it or fax/email it to anyone who wants it.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[J. Huber]

While not ideal, I added lapbelts to mine where there once were none. I had it done while my seats were being re-upholstered. Very simple and basic. I now click in religiously, as do my passengers. I suppose this will be helpful in minor crash situations -- of course anything major -- probably not.



James
63 230SL

[n/a]

James,

I have added after market three points retractable belts to my 65 230sl before. It was a very simple operation and you would feel a lot safer than the lapbelts.

Louis 70 280sl red auto

[J. Huber]

Thanks Louis. Where would one find the three-point that would go well with our cars? I have seen used Kangols from time to time -- but would be open to all thoughts.

James
63 230SL

[TR]

James -- FYI; I got mine thru Gernold.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

[Ed Cave]

James:

I used a more modern MB 560SL 3-point set up in my 280SL. They don't look particularly modern, I just figured its the kind of thing that improved over the years and if I was going to go to the expense and trouble to add them, they might as well work as good as they can.

By the way in the first attached photo, the little black questionable thing sticking out near the seat belt is the female plug for the rear window defroster - has nothing to do with the seat belt.

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA


1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0
2006 GS430

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[n/a]

I got mine from Wesco Performance for about $70 each. They are no MB product but it works. I used the two existing holes from the lapbelt and the hole behind the seatback for the shoulder anchor.

Louis 70 280sl Red Auto

[DavidAPease]

I have Kangol three-point belts, and while not original to the car, I think they're as original as I can get for a '66, and probably as safe as any if used properly.  However, this thread puts me in mind of a thought I had at the Tech Session.  I noticed how nicely a couple of folks had retrofitted retractable belts to their cars using the "under the back shelf" retractor method, which looks very sharp.  Since I have just had my Kangols rewebbed (at Ssnake Oyl), I was fantasizing about getting some retractors, then having the Kangol hardware hooked to them, so that the belts and buckles look "original", but have the retracting feature.  Obviously, the short inboard strap adjustment would be unneeded, but I don't think it would do any harm.  Probably a silly thought, but idle minds...

-David Pease
'66 French 230SL

[erickmarciano]

anyone have a part # for a seatbelt guide that would go on the original headrest?

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

[hauser]

Eric try www.performanceproducts.com/  The part # is 91-062.  Hope this helps.

BTW I have this type seat belt holder on my car along with tree point retactable belts ala Gernold.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[Chad]

I realize this is not following the seatbelt thread completely, but does anyone know how much a '31 Deusenburg weighs? Is it built like a tank or have thin side body panels/doors? Would occupants of a 1931 vintage motorcar survive a higher speed broadside/t-bone type accident with seatbelts or not? Seatbelts are the wonderful things they are, and they keep occupants INSIDE a vehicle that is hit and rolling, but I just wonder if the prewar classics offer any real protection to occupants at all, or is this something that drivers of the antiques simply live with.  I simply think that driving the older cars puts us all (even our later model 230SL heavy and with safety enhancements) as significant risk when it comes to the errant drivers of large and fast modern cars (mass X velocity2).

What do you think?  If you could fit your children into a 230SL (which seemingly can't be done), would you do that and drive them around a mid-sized college town, for instance, in your 230SL with seatbelts??? How about your '31 Deusy with seatbelts???

-CD-
1967 230SL
1983 300TDT

[Chad]

I just wanted to add that I believe strongly in life insurance, especially because I indulge myself in driving this older car.  I guess I should also add that I have decided to turn around and sell it because I have been convinced that I just don't have the time to devote to restoring it myself (neither the skill).  In any case, I love this forum so much I will have to go out and buy one that has been restored already ($$$$$).

Anyway, seeing a lot of trauma in the hospital it makes me think twice about the safety of driving the vintage cars I love in the modern age.

-CD-
1967 230SL
1983 300TDT

[mdsalemi]

FYI:

1931 Duesenberg Model J weighed 5,269 pounds.  No light weight.  It rolled several times when T-boned from the Volvo.



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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050802/ap_on_re_us/classic_car_safety

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[glcg123]

Does anyone have any experience with Andover restraints?

I can purchase new belts from MB but I have heard that there is a fair amount of installation work needed. They are also $460. US a pair.

George

1965 230SL

[Chad]

Thanks for that info about the car.  It sure was heavy, the Volvo must have been soaring. It is such a tragic thing... I can see why that gentleman would have had his family out for a ride in it, the picture is beautiful.

BTW, I decided not to sell my 230SL in search of an easier project.  I simply really like driving the car and want to try to bring this one back!

Take care all!

-CD-
1967 230SL
1983 300TDT

[jmela]

There's some pics on this news report...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/4794575/detail.html?subid=22100415&qs=1%3Bbp=t

[J. Huber]

Not to turn away from the tragedy in any way, but does anyone with an earlier (no headrests) car, have a photo of a successfully done 3-point guy? I'd love a picture -- so I can picture it...

James
63 230SL