Opinions - Pagoda VS 911

[Bonnyboy]

I would like to go on more excursions with my wife in my pagoda.  My problem is that she doesn't like the wind in a convertible and she says my car stinks (she is sensitive to the exhaust smell).   She won't go on my Harleys either so instead of spending time alone on the road I am not using my toys like I should.  And no I don't want another wife.   

We sat in a bright white 1984 911sc and she said that she could do that.  It was in a garage so on the road may be a different thing.

I'm sure many of you have experience with both cars.  I have never driven a 70-80's 911 (other than a '76 930 once, but that is out of my snack bracket).  Alternatively I may just put the hard top on and put a lambskin seat cover on the seats to make it more plushy for her.

How have your significant others enjoyed the cars -  Pagoda vs 911?    Hints?

[Jordan]

My wife's favorite car is the Pagoda.  I don't know why you have an exhaust smell because mine does not.  Perhaps looking into that would save you from having to buy a 911.  You could also put up the soft top or put on the hard top.

[Jack the Knife]

WAF (wife approval factor) is tough. Does she like to be comfortable, want to feel fast/G-forces, want something cute, etc...

A lot of G-body 911s have been thrashed through ten owners. Many have lots of sorting to do and prices are way up. Aftermarket support is great and tech support is comparable to our forum, that is to say, really excellent. You can customize them in so many ways and really get upside down making it yours if that's what you like. Many of my friends have classic 911s from before the market on them really took off and I've always been envious of that scene.

But if I ever buy a Porsche, it'd probably be a 928. I've always had a soft spot for them. It's like the fuselage of a plane!

The women I've known always seem to like curvy, cute, stylish, and no smells ideally. Namely, the 356, 190SL, plush 50s American personal luxury coupes, the early E-type coupes until they get in one, Karmann Ghia, Fiat Jolly and similar beach cars... then that other demographic that likes Broncos and Blazers and Defenders and such, at least the idea of them.

But yeah a well-sorted 911 is a really nice car. Everything post-1977 is totally galvanized, which is really nice. I recall the AC not being great on the 80s cars I've known but I'm sure there's a fix. A lot of people REALLY like the 3.2 for feeling the most "modern" of the bunch, or at least that's the word most oft-ascribed that I've seen. Might want to drive one.

But like Jordan said, looking into the smell of your car would be a lot cheaper than buying a 911. I'd look into that unless you'd die of angst from not owning one.

[Cees Klumper]

My better half very much enjoys the Pagoda, top up preferred (draft / hair thing). No smells BTW?

Agree on the 928, now that's a car.

[Pawel66]

My wife also complained about:
1. Gasoline smell
2. Exhaust smell
3. Windy environment

The way I addressed these complaints:
ad. 1. Linkage tour and setting proper mixture. Now it smells only on cold starts, which I avoid to perform in her presence.
ad. 2. Thorough overhaul of tank ventilation system, replacing the seals under fuel level sensor and in the filler cap - no smell
ad. 3. It was imperative to install windschott (as we call it here), a wind deflector, both in my Pagoda and in the 190SL. This goes a long way!

By the way: as we started driving the 190SL recently, my wife says 190SL has the most comfortable seats she experienced in any car (I have a coupe version car, so Ponton - like seats).

Recognizing that Porsche are fine cars, I am not interested in the brand at all.

[john.mancini]

Two very different animals. I currently have two 911’s, 83SC coupe and a 98 993 Cab. (By the way there were no 84SC’s ever made. In 84 Porsche went to the 3.2 Carrera.). Anyway, I still love my Pagodas for top down cruising. My 2-cent opinion………keep the Pagoda.

[zoegrlh]

My wife has always wanted a 911 cab.  Just saw a 2015 dark red on gray 911 Carrera S all wheel drive for sale at our local Auto Haus at 75 grand. Could trade our Pagoda on it, but when I tell her that the 911 would make taxes go up and insurance up, compadres to Pagoda, no taxes, and insurance very very low, plus value off Pagoda rises each year compared to depreciation of 911.  She agrees with me that we keep the Pagoda and enjoy our road trips with it, even if it does not have a/c. We get more looks and thumbs up then any 911 owners do.

[Paul99]

OK, controversial comment!  Sorry......but....  I dont "get" 911's   They are a bit average in the cabin, engine sounds like a set of nuts and bolts in a biscuit tin, engine is in the wrong place, and there are thousands of them over priced and not particularly fast. 

But some people think they are the best thing since sliced bread..  Each to their own I guess.

Sorry to all 911 owners. Im sure there is some magic to them but I cant find it.

Pagodas are in a different league IMO.

[Bonnyboy]

Thanks for the comments public and private.   Maybe its time to finish the MGB and put the hardtop on it with a lambskin seat cover for her

From the comments it looks like I may need to do the linkage tour again.  The smell that she complains about is from the exhaust- when we come off the freeway and pull up to the first traffic light - as we are waiting for the light to turn we get the waft from the exhaust and it bothers her.   

[mdsalemi]

OK, controversial comment!  Sorry......but....  I dont "get" 911's   They are a bit average in the cabin, engine sounds like a set of nuts and bolts in a biscuit tin, engine is in the wrong place, and there are thousands of them over priced and not particularly fast. 

But some people think they are the best thing since sliced bread..  Each to their own I guess.

Sorry to all 911 owners. Im sure there is some magic to them but I cant find it.

Pagodas are in a different league IMO.

You about took the words out of my mouth...thank you!

Pagoda vs 911 is a quintessential apples vs oranges comparison, maybe even worse. About the only thing they sort of have in common is they were/are aspirational cars, not necessarily ones used for daily driving...but even that's not necessarily accurate. My own Pagoda was my uncle's daily driver 1969-1979. Plenty of 911s used as daily drivers, and today both new and old 911s on the road and in garages, and Pagodas mostly garaged. Of course, the 911 in modern versions is still manufactured while the Pagoda is a piece of history.

I drove a 356 once, a 924 once, and a Boxster later. Unimpressed but I can appreciate those who love the marque. Just not for me.

Any older car is going to have some kind of smells associated with it that just don't exist on a modern vehicle. When the CSV is on the Pagoda is burning quite rich and that's quite a smell, enough to turn many people off I would think.

[john.mancini]

It’s a matter of taste. Some prefer Porsche, some Mercedes.  Some even like them both, like me. I have always loved the Pagodas. Saw my first one while in grade school and was bitten. Granted, it was almost 40 years later when I bought my first W113, but I will always own a Pagoda and will pass it on to my oldest son, who also has the car bug. With regards to Porsches, drive a Boxster. Some Porsche aficionados look down on the Boxsters. There’s a reason why, year in and year out, Boxsters are ranked as the top production sports cars. They are great handling cars, with plenty of power, especially the “S” and GTS/Spyder versions. Any Boxster will out-perform the previous generation 911. (For example, a 987 Boxster will out-perform a 996 911). That has been stated on PCA.org. But, like I said, it comes down to a matter of taste. There’s no wrong choice in my opinion. By the way, I’m very lucky. My wife loves all of the sports cars.

[zak]

Fun topic to ponder. Both cars were viewed as cool in my youth.
I think the 911 is harder to drive, keeping the revs up etc. Very reliable though.
I've bought a used 74 911S back in my pre pagoda days in the early 80's and tried hard to like it but it was like a chore to drive. You really can't just cruise in a 911.
I got rid of it in less than a year. Then a few years later a rusty 250 sl California coupe 4 spd fell into my lap for $ 500 and I was hooked. It drove like a dream.

Yes, pop on the hard top and get out the sheepskins.

jz

[MikeSimon]

Two totally different cars. I don't own a 911 but I own a 914-6GT (original factory) and have driven my share of 911s from the 70s all the way up to a 2019 Turbo S. If your wife does not like the SL, she most likely will not get to like the 911. For someone who is an occasional cruiser in a classic car, the engine "noise" in an air-cooled Porsche will not be something they will be happy with. Also, for the driver, the oversteer tendencies of the 911 will take time to get used to. You have a greater chance to get your wife to like the SL than any 911. Maybe a Boxster.

[thelews]

Apples and oranges, as Michael said. 

For a prissy wife, you won't beat the Pagoda for a vintage car.  Just put the top up or the hardtop on and fix your smelly exhaust.  It rides well, sits well, is roomy, large trunk for traveling and is a reliable touring car. 

The 911 is a sports car, meant to sound like one, drive like one and excite like one.  Not a Pagoda.  It's a thrill to drive especially when she starts "singing" at 5500+ rpm.

Two different vehicles for two different purposes.  I have both, '67 250 SL, '70 911E.

[mdsalemi]

The 911 is a sports car, meant to sound like one, drive like one and excite like one.  Not a Pagoda. 
Two different vehicles for two different purposes.

Precisely!

[zoegrlh]

Again you get a lot more high fives with a Pagoda, it drives like a dream and has just enough sound to make you realize you are in the “top of the heap” for that era of cars.

[mdsalemi]

Again you get a lot more high fives with a Pagoda, it drives like a dream and has just enough sound to make you realize you are in the “top of the heap” for that era of cars.

In 2006, when I was invited to the Concours at Meadowbrook, my Pagoda was in the circle of "Post War Sports Cars" (I'll ignore the sports car title to the class) which included a very rare Porsche from 1962 (some cabriolet that they claim only 26 were made); a BMW 507, the last big block Corvette to roll off the assembly line (and which they filmed a movie about), and an early 60s pristine and drop dead gorgeous Daimler SP250 (not Daimler-Benz, but British Daimler) along with pedestrian Jaguar or two. Want to know which car attracted the most photo-ops with the attendees?  The photo attached is just after the crew set the car into position for the Concours d'Elegance.

In the late 2000s and early 2010s, I used to take my wife out for our anniversary dinner to a spectacular Italian restaurant in Southfield, MI (recently closed sadly) that attracted the area's movers and shakers. When we drove up to the front door in the Pagoda, the valet often moved a Ferrari away from the front door into the back lot and left the Pagoda in front (then called the chef and kitchen staff out for a look-see.) That back lot, BTW often held countless 911s, Jags, more than one Ferrari, the occasional Lamborghini, etc. You get the idea. It was the Pagoda they wanted front and center. So what the Valet did is basically move the Pagoda about 10 feet just enough to clear a space for others to be dropped off. I thought that to be hysterical.

As the car was fairly new to me this kind of attraction was new to me also. Want to turn heads? Get a Pagoda. Not going to win any races, or beat a 911 off the line, but you will make lots of smiles.

[Jack the Knife]

[. . .] my Pagoda was in the circle of "Post War Sports Cars" (I'll ignore the sports car title to the class) [. . .]

The age-old 'is my cars a sports car' debate has been had on many an automotive forum...

I think it's just a marketing term, and that means whatever the marketer wants it to mean. And the meaning changes with the seasons. If we go all the way back to 1915 or so, it's pretty clear what a sporting-type car is versus a touring-type, but post-WWII, I'd say it gets a bit murky... and it's all semantics, really, and a semantic argument is tough to have when the definition is so catholic.

Do we trust Merriam-Webster? They call a sports car a "low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving." Road and Track published a piece you might have read in '16, "No One Knows What 'Sports Car' Means Anymore," seen here: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28225/sports-car-definition/. I don't agree with the author's definition that a sports car basically can't have a trunk or that it must be pillarless or whatever, as the meaning of words does change with time, sometimes to my chagrin. Today's definition might not jibe with the definition of 1915. Anyway, they mention the SCCA... well, the SCCA hosted a race here in '52, the wallpaper on my desktop is of a slide in my collection of this race, and you can see a variety of cars that the SCCA at least considered sports cars, including various normal fair like Ferraris and XK120s, Allards, Porsche 356s, various MGs, some Crosleys, a Cunningham C-4 (Briggs was there in a Ferrari oddly), you get the idea... we see some commonalities of motorsports-oriented (though not exclusively), soft/no top, small, and fast (either off the line or top speed). Looking at later mid-60s SCCA championships, one finds again the usual fare of Porsches and so forth, some Lotus cars, Morgan 4/4, Austin-Healeys, Triumph TR4s, C1 Corvettes, Sunbeam Alpines, Daimlers, Volvo P1800s... I mean, I think there's at least some similarity between some of these cars and our Pagodas, don't you? The public at large who doesn't mind the use of a nebulous term like 'sports cars' would probably group our car in there. I think getting too granular with it takes away the general idea that a sports car is one whose primarily build intention is sporting about, not hauling lumber, not moving kids to summer camp, not as a taxi, not as an efficient commuter... I like Wikipedia's definition, "A sports car is a type of car that is designed with an emphasis on dynamic performance, such as handling, acceleration, top speed, the thrill of driving, and racing capability."

I'd say our cars were built with pretty "dynamic" performance, especially compared to the competition of the time -- handles better than an E-type, accelerates just fine (or better depending on configuration), the top speed was pretty high, and, gosh, what more does the poor 230SL have to do, it did show off its racing capability in a pretty grand way through its Rally performances, which I mean you wrote a great book on Pagodas so you know all this stuff...

Mentioning the E-type, I'd say that's a pretty comparable car to ours, as is the BMW E9, 2002, and, hey, that P1800. These cars were available in more-and-less sporting guises. The MK III E-type 2+2 is, in my eyes, less of a 'sports car' than a MK I DHC, but that doesn't make it 'not' a sports car according to the general public... some E9s could be had in a 2.5L automatic spec for the '74 and '75 model years, and these are certainly "less" of a 'sports car' than a '71 Euro 3.0 CSi. There were 2002s that were almost dogs, and then there are those that were pretty quick in ways a C1 Corvette, which is surely a sports car, could never be.

And if this argument isn't so convincing, let's look at Mercedes' own ad copy from the early-60s, or even Mercedes prominently placing a Pagoda on the front cover of their circa 1965 booklet you can find on eBay and the like called "World Victories with Touring and Racing Cars in Seven Decades," I certainly think through at least '67 that Mercedes thought of the Pagoda as their sports car. Gosh, in the attached ad, they mention the term about 11 times! I think by the end, a US-spec AC and automatic-equipped 280SL coupe is 'less' of a 'sports car' than a 5-speed 250SL with a 3.75 or 4.08 and LSD.. and I think Mercedes realized that, seeing the take rate for comfort touring features vs those more 'sporting' features by the end of the run, and designed the R107 accordingly.

[Paul99]

Want to turn heads? Get a Pagoda. Not going to win any races, or beat a 911 off the line, but you will make lots of smiles.

Yep, always get lovely looks and positive comments when in the pagoda.   I also have a Bentley GT convertible but when in that I just the "flash ba%^tard"  looks.   

[JamesL]

Entirely understandable, tbf 

Sports cars… sort of impractical- well, until you think about things like the w124 E500 or the AMG E36 wagon…

[MikeSimon]

  which included a very rare Porsche from 1962 (some cabriolet that they claim only 26 were made); 

Maybe a 356B Super90 Cabriolet/Hardtop. A rare specification, not really a rare model...

[thelews]

I have an E-type.  I've driven an E-type.  A Pagoda is no E-type.

[Jack the Knife]

I have an E-type.  I've driven an E-type.  A Pagoda is no E-type.

I didn't mean to say that it was, I should rephrase that how it started versus how it ended is a similar arc to the pagoda, where comforts for a decidedly older and American audience seemed to take precedence over "being a sportscar". That is, it became bloated and a tad cheapened over time.

[Pinder]

My wife hates my 280SL and she cant wait for me to sell it. I plan to sell it in the spring and buy a 911. I am thinking 997.2 (automatic) . few weeks ago I picked up a C5 corvette. She loves the corvette (1997) . it has all the modern conviences and I just added Apple carplay touch screen and backup camera. it does not feel like a 27 year old car.

[zoegrlh]

Ah yes the modern convenience.  Let’s face it, we did not buy the Pagoda for modern conveniences. However, look back to 1970 the Pagoda ( my is a 280SL of 70 vintage)in comparison with the “sports cars” of that time. People bought Pagodas because they were far superior than its competitors (4 wheel disc brakes, crash zone, thick spring seating, leg room, larger fuel capacity, and the “new” styling of straighter lines, etc.). So you could make an argument that those first owners bought their cars for the modern conveniences.  I think today if you want “sports Cars” for sure you think of Porsche. But there is a new player on the field, the Corvette. Between the two, Corvette is the better bargain. At the price of the new 911, you can get a new Z06, and you are buying American.