Author Topic: steering box disc cap removal  (Read 2019 times)

pavichm

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steering box disc cap removal
« on: January 03, 2025, 16:28:34 »
Hi all,
Im having a heck of a time trying to remove the disc cap on the steering box on a '65 230SL. I've got a leaky oring that I need to replace but cannot get a good grip on the thing with any of my snap-ring pliars or long needle nose pliars. Is there a special pin socket or pin wrench that will wiggle the disc out? I'm able to move it left/right a 1/2 inch either way but it's not budging or making any attempt at coming out.

Thanks,
Mark

BobH

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2025, 16:46:43 »
February 1965 230SL Automatic
UK delivered RHD
Papyrus white, blue hard top & hub caps
Blue soft top
Blue leather

ja17

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2025, 07:25:17 »
Hello Mark,
 The small round disc you are trying to remove does screw into place. The threads are in the inner hole of the disc. so it actually threads onto the threaded rod. It must be rotated to be removed, the same as the hex nut. The outside of the disc is not threaded, but does have a groove for the O-ring seal, which is leaking in your case. I suspect that the o-ring has degraded so bad that it is binding and making the disc difficult to rotate. I'll try to check to see if I have the special "pin socket" tool or a special spanner wrench tomorrow. Otherwise, there are quite a few adjustable spanner wrenches on the market. They are often used when rebuilding hydraulic cylinders on heavy equipment. A pin socket might work best in tight quarters where you are working.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2025, 07:31:55 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

yves

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2025, 20:34:43 »
I used that one with pleasure…. But on the bench…!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2025, 13:41:46 by yves »
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

mdsalemi

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2025, 21:43:16 »
Would it not be easier, if it's giving you fits, to removed the steering gear/box, and do it on a bench?
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

ja17

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2025, 05:19:57 »
Hi Michael, It is a fair amount of work to remove and install the unit. In addition keeping the steering box and steering column indexed correctly is tricky, especially if you have never done it before. If the unit is on the bench, you want to consider a total reconditioning at that point. The procedure in the workshop manual is over thirty pages in length. The rebuild kit includes dozens of seals. o rings and gaskets. When you're all finished you will have no way to test it until it is re-installed. Most owners opt to send to a rebuilder, who can rebuild and test it before re-installation. It ends up being a considerable investment in time and money.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Pawel66

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2025, 10:26:36 »
As an amateur, I took the path ja17 described. Indeed removal and installation was difficult enough. I had the box re-built by SLS. I decided the challenge was too big for me, I want it done well and within reasonable time, I did not care about enriching my "French" vocabulary, so I sent it to rebuilders.

What I can stress is that for me, for re-installation and alignment adjustments, it was critical to fabricate the centering tool for the box - a bolt you screw in the designated opening in the housing to have the box locked in the middle position (pointed M8, if I recall correctly, fine threaded bolt).
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

mdsalemi

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2025, 15:37:39 »
Hi Michael, It is a fair amount of work to remove and install the unit. In addition keeping the steering box and steering column indexed correctly is tricky, especially if you have never done it before. If the unit is on the bench, you want to consider a total reconditioning at that point. The procedure in the workshop manual is over thirty pages in length. The rebuild kit includes dozens of seals. o rings and gaskets. When you're all finished you will have no way to test it until it is re-installed. Most owners opt to send to a rebuilder, who can rebuild and test it before re-installation. It ends up being a considerable investment in time and money.

I understand all that Joe. There are a LOT of members here doing all kinds of complex things on our Pagodas for the first time. Some for the challenge and others to keep costs to a minimum.

I went through a complete and total steering system renovation in May 2024. As a consequence of my exhaust system work in early January a year ago, because of my ill fated loss of rubber donuts on the way to PagodaFest in Chicago September 2023 (nothing happens fast here!), my mechanic friend noted that both the steering gear/box and the PS pump were both leaking. Not only did this explain some mysterious leaks under the car over the years, but to me was not surprising. The car was now 55 years old, and during the restoration in 1999-2001, nothing was touched on the steering system. So after all these years and over 130,000 miles how could one be surprised there's a leak? Or wear?

Thrifting a repair (doing it on the cheap) to me, will always lead to more work down the line, and kicking yourself for not doing a better job when you had the chance. If you spend 4 hours struggling to remove ONE PART on a steering gear (with lots of "French" as Pawel indicates) to access ONE O-RING, wouldn't that time be better spent removing the gear and doing it on a bench? You may not like what you see with more things to fix but you won't regret a total rebuild if that's what's called for.

You bring up a good point about total reconditioning. It was your suggestion of the complexity of the rebuild kit, along with the 30+ pages of instructions that had me say to myself I'd be a fool of the highest order NOT to simply get a rebuilt unit and have that installed instead. My mechanic friend was ready and able to do the rebuild himself, and he's done it before. BUT, I'm a firm believer in expertise, and C&M Hydraulics in Las Vegas ONLY does these boxes and power steering pumps, so they are exceedingly good at what they do.

I bought both the C&M rebuilt PS Pump and the Gear and new fluid from Autohauz AZ, on "exchange" with a costly core charge for the gear. The pump is easy to find in many places, the gear more difficult. I bought new hoses, both the high pressure and low pressure from Authentic Classics. I gave it all to my mechanic friend and he did it all fairly quickly (maybe about 4-5 hours labor?) and for the first time in years, no leaks at all underneath the car, and everything is just perfect. It was easier for him to remove the radiator to get the pump out so that he did, which also meant we changed all the coolant in the process.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

yves

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2025, 15:47:41 »
I did that work some years ago .....! it was as say Joe a tricky job  ::) but it worth put the box on the bench so you can refurb each component , joint and almost torque right each nut++++ (thank's to the tech manual)
As i had not a torque adaptated  wrench, i made my custom one with a bar and a "peson " or old dynameter  . And it worked well. i checked and adjusted the paralellism on the wheels after that. Not so easy.... ! but job done after some tryes.
Happy owner of a 69 blue 280SL ,  63 FHC  osb E-type , 55 FHC XK 140 to be restored...

ja17

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2025, 05:54:25 »
The job of indexing all the components includes the front wheels, the steering shaft, the steering ignition lock, the steering wheel, the steering box and the turn signal cancellation. Perform the final check by driving forward, then parking with the wheels pointing straight forward.  Remove the ignition key. The steering wheel should lock with no or just slight movement of steering wheel. The  spokes of the steering wheel should be exactly horizontal when the steering lock is engaged. At this point the slash mark on the end of the steering column, (in the steering wheel hub) should be at 12:00. Lastly, you should have an equal number of turns of the steering wheel from center lock left then right. It usually ends up being roughly 1 3/4 turns total each direction. If the index mark on the end of the steering column is not pointing directly upward when the front wheels are straight, the turn signal cancellation will never work correctly. If the turn to lock on each direction is not equal, your minimum turning radius may vary left to right. Using the slash mark on the steering column, the centering of the steering box (with tool), the slash mark on the steering pitman arm and the alignment of the front wheels straight ahead, with the steering wheel set Horizontal, you will get the results needed. You can perform minor changes in steering wheel rotation from side to side by adjusting the left and right tie rods before final alignment of the front wheels.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2025, 05:59:01 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

stickandrudderman

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2025, 13:15:17 »
At this point the slash mark on the end of the steering column, (in the steering wheel hub) should be at 12:00.
Unless you're working on RHD, in which case it'll be at the 6 o'clock position.
 :)

ja17

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2025, 23:23:40 »
Interesting. I did not know that about the RHD drive cars Stick!
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Mike Hughes

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2025, 23:28:33 »
Makes sense - the turn signal stalk is on the other side of the column, operated with the right hand on a RHD car.
- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
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pavichm

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Re: steering box disc cap removal
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2025, 03:28:51 »
Thanks for the replies. I haven't tackled this job yet but leaning towards attempting to unscrew the disc carefully with the box in place. I will report back as to how I went about it.

Best regards,

Mark