GOT A BIG PROBLEM with chain instalation

[erickmarciano]

tried to follow Joe's instruction for the replacement of the chain , all went well till the wire that holds the driver side of the the chain let got and as you can see the chain fell in the engine <not the tensiener side>
is there a way to get it out?I will buy a strong magnet today . with the weak one I have I can feel the chain but it will not grab
please help.
one other problem when I lined up the mark on the crank , the cam was a little off , can I turn the crank with to line it up since the chain is removed
thanks so much
Erick Marciano

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

[Vince Canepa]

You could take off the aluminum cover on the front of the block (that the distributor fits into and covers the intermediate shaft drive sprocket).  Hopefully you can then pass a wire down from above and drag the chain back up (if it isn't all the way down in the pan).

Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex

[enochbell]

There is an option you can try before removing the front cover.  No guarantees, it depends on how the chain is folded now that it is slack at the bottom and how much patience you have.  You can use a pickup tool you can get from any good parts store: it is about 2 feet long made of flexible steel with a plunger/actuator at the top and a grappler at the bottom that extends/releases when you push the plunger and retracts/grabs when you release.  Between that and the mag. pickup you might get lucky and tease the thing back up.  No self respecting mechanic would admit to using one of these but what the heck, you are in a jam.

Good luck

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[enochbell]

And as far as moving the cam, yes you should line it up to the mark as long as you are dead sure the the rest of the gear train is properly positioned.  The reason it was not lined up when you removed the chain was probably due to chain stretch unless the chain/tensioners were so bad that it actually jumped a tooth, but I think you would have known if that was the case.

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[mille]

Hi Eric,

Some time ago I bought a flexible grip-thing, which I used several times to pick up lost items in the engine bay and elsewhere. It cost a few $ only and might be the solution to your problem. See attached photos. Good luck!

Finn
Denmark
1964 MB 230 SL Euro 4-speed silver metallic
1988 MB 230 E silver metallic



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[erickmarciano]

thank you all for your help and suport , I will try later tonight and post what I found

thnaks
Erick

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

[ranchomerced]

Dont panic... take two coat hangers and bend a hook in each one.. feed the first one down and catch the chain until it has no more slack then take the other one and do the same... alternate between the two hooks and "walk" tha chain back out. Mark

[ja17]

photos added

Hello Erick,
Don't panic, this is usually not a big deal, just a bump in the road! Try not to use not loose any small parts down there. You get an extra merit badge for retrieving a lost chain!

First do not turn the engine. I assume you just lost one end of the chain. Remove the top chain rail held on by two 6mm allen bolts, this will give you some room to work.

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You can go fishing for the lost end next . Those suggetions for using magnetic and mechanical pick up tools are good ideas. A bent wire coat hanger works good also. Make sure you do not loose the other end.

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 Removal of the aluminum sprocket cover on the front of the engine will not help usually.

If you cannot retrieve the end by fishing, next loosen and remove the 22mm camshaft sprocket bolt (do not drop any parts in the engine!).  Tap the chain sprocket off. Notice the deep dished side of the sprocket goes toward the rear of the engine (for re-assembly). When this sprocket is removed you will have lots of room to fish and probably will be able to see what your going after using a flashlight (torch to some of us).
We can go further if these methods do not work. Hang in there, we'll get you through this.
When you retrieve the chain< wire it this way with a wire hanger, to keep it under control!

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Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[ja17]

Hello Erick,
Hope your having some success. Some words of caution. Do not be tempted to turn the engine with the starter until you first check the timing marks when turning by hand in the normal direction of rotation. The camshaft mark can be a little late but NEVER even a bit early. cover the chain gallery with some rags when hooking and un-hooking the master link so no small parts fall into the engine. You can use vice grips to clamp the chain to the sprocket during critical connection of masterlink.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[erickmarciano]

you guys are the best . I removed the guide then I used a long magnet and I was able to get to it , than I fed the new one in and all is lined up

thanks so much
Erick Marciano
tomorow night is another long night I will replace the valve seals with the head in place .

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

[ja17]

Erich,
This is a job. Very tedious for the first timer. Be very, very careful, you can drop a valve into the engine or small parts down the chain gallery! Special tools needed (valve spring compressor).  Ask a lot of questions!

Are you using compressed air to hold the valves up?

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Ben]

Isn't there only very small clearance between piston and valve at TDC ? If so how could one drop a valve beyond retrieval ?

I replaced my seals with the head on, I fed some cord into the cylinders through the plug hole and brought it around to near TDC. The cord hols the valves from dropping down !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

[erickmarciano]

I did the first 2 cylinders it went well . I use air .
does anyone know when mercedes started to ude the black exhaust seal?
the original ones I have on my car are white .
my new chain has 2 c clips and the old one has one large one , but the chain i had was also changed at one point.

thanks again for all the help

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

[Benz Dr.]

Yes, you can drop a valve into the cylinder - the exhaust valve. I won't do this job this way. Either the head comes off for a proper rebuild or it stays on the car and out the door. IF it was a fresh rebuild and the seal came off then I would fix it this way.
 
When it comes back because it dosen't  work right ( and it won't if there's any wear on the guides ) I'd have to fix it all over again. People expect things to be done right at affordable prices. Part of that is making the right choices regarding repair methods or procedures. A person's budget plays a major roll in which way I go.
There are some things I won't do:
a) build race cars - there's nothing to start from and race cars have far different requirements than a street driven car. This is better handled by race car shops.
b) build a street rod - like put a 6.3 in a 280SL. Take it to cut, chop, rebuild.
c) do R&D work for someone - most of the time the effort spent is not equal to the results obtained. This is not the same as changes that are known to work. I'm talking about a blank sheet of paper.
d) build 100 point show cars  - the stress level received trying to do this burns most guys out in a few years. The infastructure needed is several times that of a regular shop. We have produced several '' best of show '' cars at local level MB car shows ( MBCCA and MBCC events ) but they weren't 100 point cars.
Just ask anyone who has been through the process and they'll tell you how much more complex and time consuming it really turned out to be. Unless you're willing to take a car somewhere and pick it up a few years later dropping lots of money along the way and never be involved or care, don't do it.
A perfect example of this is 300SL's Once finished they usual go on the show circuit for a few seasons where they had better win top prize or someones head is on the block. Not my cut of tea folks.......

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org

[erickmarciano]

just finished the job and it went great , the car does not smoke anymore , all my guides were ok
thanks again for all the help
Erick

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

[Ben]

Dan...........I understand your viewpoint completely and agree 100%. The difference is that you have to stand over your work, whilst us DIY'ers can try to keep costs down, labour doesn't matter !

I have the newer black seals ready to go on next week, the guides and the entire head rebuild is only 2 years old !

Erick glad it all worked out for you .........well done !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

[ja17]

Congratulations Erick,

You have completed two fairly complex tasks.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[erickmarciano]

you need 4 hands for these 2 jobs and alot of light.
Dan , I know  I can pay   to rebuit the head I wanted to  try this first <15$ seals> . the car ran great before just a little smoke .

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa

[Benz Dr.]

That's the difference too. IF the guides are good then it will last longer as a repair.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org