Author Topic: Torque Specs for Head?  (Read 13207 times)

bpossel

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Torque Specs for Head?
« on: August 26, 2005, 17:41:39 »
Hi All!

What are the torque specs for the 4 small 6mm allens on the front of the head?  There are 2 that hold the chain rail and 2 on the outside front.

I have torqued the other 12 (10mm) to 80 ft pounds.

Today retorque the head, tomorrow I will adjust the valves....  1st time doing this... pretty cool!

Thanks for your help!
Bob

bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320

ja17

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2005, 20:45:18 »
Hello Bob,
These small bolts around the chain gallery are not under compression pressure like the other head bolts. Tightening them by "feel" should be fine. You can also use a generic chart which gives general torque specs for diameter and hardness of bolts, if you do not trust your "feel".

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

bpossel

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2005, 04:23:27 »
Hi Joe,

Thanks! Its good to know that these smaller bolts are not under pressure like the others.  I did find in the BBB that these small bolts need to be torqued to 2.5kpm or ~5.5 lbs.  Or, like you say... by feel.  Sometimes it's more fun to post than the dig through the manual...
Thanks again!
Bob

bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320

erickmarciano

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2005, 08:42:57 »
should I retorque the head I think the headgasket is original?
thanks

1971 280sl
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ja17

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2005, 09:01:06 »
Erick,
Yes,  head re-torque should be part of your standard maintenance procedure (12,000 mile intervals with a valve adjustment). Be sure to loosen the radiator cap before the loosening and re-torquing each head bolt in sequence one at a time.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

bpossel

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2005, 15:40:52 »
 :)  :)  :) Finished adjusting the valves today and installing a new Thermo Time Switch (what the hec... not happy unless I am also replacing something...)

Anyway, now that I have done this for the first time myself, I am now more comfortable with the process ;) .  I borrowed the valve tool from my local MB dealer (nice guys!).  The 1st time through all of the valves I used the jog switch that I recently purchased.  It was hard to get the lobes to be straight up!  So after I completed all of them, I went back through a 2nd time around :( .  This time by hand cranking the pulley.  This took a long time and lots of patience since I had to lay on the floor, turn the pulley slightly, then jump back up and check if the lobe was straight up.  Would have worked better with a helper or with the hood removed.  I am glad I went through a 2nd time.  I found a few of the valves needing a slight more adjustment :oops: .  Test drove the car and seems like a lot more pep and somewhat quieter.

Overall a fun job!

 :) Hope y'all have a nice weekend!
Bob

bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320

jeffc280sl

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2005, 16:16:46 »
Hi Bob,

Great job!  It's nice when things fall right into place.  You need to remember jobs like this when you get into repairing something that doesn't go as planned.

I did my valves also and then went back a second time also.  The engine is considerably quieter and has remained so for the last 500 miles or so.  I can tell when I pull into a parking lot with other cars around to reflect the sound.  There is no valve clicking sound that you hear on older cars that are not well maintained.  It's great to have an older car I just don't want it to sound like it's old and tired.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

hands_aus

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2005, 06:13:31 »
quote:
Originally posted by ja17

Erick,
Yes,  head re-torque should be part of your standard maintenance procedure (12,000 mile intervals with a valve adjustment). Be sure to loosen the radiator cap before the loosening and re-torquing each head bolt in sequence one at a time.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio



Hey Joe, everybody

Is re-torqueing the head and valve adjustments something an amateur shade tree mechanic like me capable of? My self confidence is growing but I don't want to attack a project that is beyond my capabilities.

Let me remind you that in the past I was a qualified electrician who rebuilt electric motors, transformers and appliances and a qualified design draftsman. So I am technical.

Cars were not my hobby as a young man and if I didn't own my 'Snowy' they probably wouldn't be my hobby now.

I have never removed the valve cover on the engine because I have always been wary of making 'leaks' where they don't exist now.
Recently, however when I replaced the thermostat I bought new seals/gasket and there are no leaks. So I figure it is just the same thing, replace the seals and it should be OK.

Funnily, I know how to adjust the air/fuel mixture to best specs because of my readings here and the guidance from you folk.
I have stripped down and rebuilt my old style electric fuel pump.

The reason I ask is that I have had my car for just over 3 years now and travelled 8500 miles. I don't think the engine has had the valves adjusted for ages before I bought the car.

It doesn't blow smoke and uses oil at about correct spec rate.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 06:33:33 by hands_aus »
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best

Cees Klumper

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2005, 14:24:43 »
Bob - you can definitely do this. Taking the valve cover off is not likely to damage the seal. To set the valves having an appropriate-size crowfoot wrench is advisable, plus a tool to depress valve springs when necessary. The adjustment procedure is well-documented here on this site and in the various manuals. Having the valves set to the correct specs is important.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

bpossel

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2005, 18:46:22 »
Bob Smith,

Here are some notes that I collected from this site and talking to Joe A.  Good Luck!  Bob

Normally the head is tightened and the valves adjusted on these engines at 12,000 mile intervals. If you do not know the service history of the engine, I automatically torque the head first.

Don't forget to loosen the radiator cap first. I do the M130 (280SL) engines at 80 ft. lbs of torque engine warm.   Remove all spark plugs also.

Note:
Torque the head when hot but cool enough to handle.

Adjust valves on cool or cold engine.
Let it sit overnight after re-torque of the head. Remove the spark plugs to aid turning engine.  Have a new valve cover gasket ready in case yours is stiff and brittle.

Tighten Head Gasket as a first step.  Tighten in this order (start in center and work outwards; also loosen hex bolt 1st, then tighten to specified torque):

12, 8, 4, 2, 6, 10, 14
11, 7, 3, 1, 5, 9, 13

Note: see page 37 in the Haynes manual

Use a long 10mm allen

Loosen and re-torque one at a time in correct torque sequence

Don't forget the bolts in the timing chain housing.  These are 6mm allen and should be torqued to 2.5kpm (5.5 ft. lbs).  These are not under pressure, so can simply adjust by feel.

Adjust Valves:
Adjust via the engine firing order to avoid excess turns of engine…
Adjust 1, then 5, then 3, then 6, then 2

Note:  See page 39 in Haynes manual for exhaust vs intake

Feeler gauge should be a tight slide through, some resistance when sliding through, but not loose.  Tighten all the way with feeler in place, then loosen.

Exhaust = .007 (7 thousandths)
Intake = .003 (3 thousandths)

Note: My measurement is in inches the one in the BBB is metric. You will find that the conversion from metric to US will give you a slightly higher value than .003" and .007" However these are acceptable values especially on a engine with some miles and wear.


bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320

hands_aus

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2005, 03:13:10 »
Hey Cees and Bob,
Thanks for your responses.

What is the appropriate size of the crowfoot wrench? Is it the same size for all Pagoda models?

At this point I don't have a torque wrench.
My understanding is that there are various maximum-setting torque wrenches available, what maximum size would you recommend?

I am sure you know from my many questions on here that I will do further research from this site before I do anything.

A couple of other things I have been thinking about is maybe I should check the timing chain and the chain tensioner while the valve cover is off.

Bobp,
I will copy all that information and as I re-read the posts on here I think it will start to make sense to me. Thanks

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best

enochbell

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2005, 04:20:32 »
Bob,

I would strongly suggest you use the correct valve adjustment tool instead of a crowfoot for the job.  These ball studs can be (should be!) very hard to turn, and even a crowfoot can round them.  The correct tool is a 14mm offset openend wrench, made by hazet and available at most parts suppliers.

Good luck,

g

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

A Dalton

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2005, 09:41:58 »
<<<What is the appropriate size of the crowfoot wrench? Is it the same size for all Pagoda models?>>>

 Yours is 14mm, but the 280 is 17mm...

 The 14 do round off if you do not have the tool.  I think that is why they went with 17 on the later ones...

Cees Klumper

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2005, 16:24:18 »
Actually I was referring to the Hazet tool, I thought it was called a crowfoot wrench.

When one of my ball stud adjusters does not turn easily, I always take out the rocker arm (that is what you need the valve spring compressor for, or you can use a large screwdriver or other suitable implement) to be able to put a full socket over it, because the danger of rounding it off otherwise (with the Hazet tool) is too great. Happened to me once, even though my 280 SL has the 17mm size, and I put in a new adjuster.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 16:32:02 by cees klumper »
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

Cees Klumper

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2005, 16:29:38 »
I bought a torque wrench with a range that accomodates most of the torque specs on our cars, but not all (my garage is miles away and I cannot tell you from memory what I got exactly). You don't want a wrench where you get towards the limits of its range, since (AFAIK) some torque wrenches may not be sufficiently reliable at those limits. You may be able to borrow or rent one, if adjusting the valves is the only thing you will use it for; most people probably need do this only once a year. Then again, I personally always welcome any excuse to buy yet another nifty tool!

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

enochbell

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2005, 18:56:35 »
First of all, the annual/12k job of retorqueing (?sp.) the head is DEFINATELY a great excuse to get a torque wrench, and a nice one at that.  Just don't go near the Snap-On truck with your wallet.

Cees, I thought I was the only one to have to pop a couple of rocker arms off to put a socket on the ball stud (the first time I did it was by necessity, after rounding one off with a crow foot).

Just for clarity:


Download Attachment: Crowfoot.jpg
48.17 KB

Download Attachment: Hazet.jpg
4.44 KB

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

A Dalton

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2005, 19:36:34 »
This is the type wrench for valve adjusting... they come in both 14 and 17.
 The offset allows for proper torque reading as rhe wrench c/l is the same as the adjuster nut c/l.

 http://www.samstagsales.com/images/hz2768-1.jpg

ja17

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2005, 20:57:44 »
Hello Greg,

The second picture looks like two Mercedes Diesel Valve adjustment wrenches. ADalton's tool is one of the correct "deep jawed" crowsfoots. There are several very good special Mercedes Valve Adjustment tools made by several manufacturers like ADalton's or similar which work well. Deep or thick jaws and high quality steel is a must for this tool.

Harbor Freight sells a very nice "click style" ratcheting torque wrench for less than $20.00! It is 1/2" drive and seems to have stayed very accurate. I check it with my $250.00 Snap-on torque wrench.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

enochbell

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2005, 04:29:14 »
Yep, Arthur and you are right, and now I have ANOTHER tool I have to buy.  I have been using the Hazet long-handled wrench for years (they make a 14 and a 17, my 230sl takes the 14 and I was under the impression that the 17 was for later SLs and diesels?).  But the tool Arthur references looks like a winner.

Thanks, once again.

Greg

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

Cees Klumper

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2005, 14:10:18 »
I have the tool Arthur posted. But even that does not always prevent rounding off the adjusters.

It also works great on the fuel injector line nuts, both on the FI pump and the injectors ends.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

TheEngineer

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2005, 19:22:27 »
Oops! Error: 2.5 kpm x 7.2 = 18 ftlbs
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hands_aus

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2005, 19:23:51 »
Thanks for the info,

I will be out shopping for the 14mm hazet tool shown on the link Arthur provided.

Looking at the offset wrench I was trying to figure out how to use a torque wrench with it but I figured you couldn't.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best

Ben

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2005, 02:28:08 »
quote:
Looking at the offset wrench I was trying to figure out how to use a torque wrench with it but I figured you couldn't


......could you use an extension bar between the two ? Would that give false readings I wonder ?  Why would you need to use a torque wrench here anyway ? When you set the valves you are turning until you reach a certain point not a certain torque !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

A Dalton

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2005, 03:36:29 »
><< When you set the valves you are turning until you reach a certain point not a certain torque !  >>

 The ball heads have a factory spec. torque setting minimum and if it is not attained , the balls get replaced as they will no longer hold valve lash specs.
 So, you use a torque wrench with a 1/2" extension and the proper tool to  check each ball head torque spec while adjusting lash.
The tool has C/L [ center-line] of both the adjuster ball and drive hole being on the same plane so that torque readings are the same as if one did a torque reading on the ball without the rocker in the way .
 That is the main purpose of the tools design, along with having a thick crow for a good fit. The torque reading is NOT the adjustment , It is the torque required to test the thread  locking/holding capacity minimum  of the adjuster .
 The factory torque specs are different for the two version ball heads [ 14/17mm ].

 
 




« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 04:18:59 by A Dalton »

Ben

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Re: Torque Specs for Head?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2005, 05:59:13 »
Yes I get it !

I actually knew that...............I just forgot temporarily !  ;)

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.