Crane Ign Update

[Bearcat]

Just for those doubters out there wondering whether electronic ignition is an option, I say go for it. I installed a XR700 Crane Igntion system and the car is basically transformed. No lumpy idle and the whole power curve is so improved. My mechanic before he removed my recently installed points pulled a plug with the plug lead attached, (eng running) and pointed it towards the block to show me the spark. Did the same with the electronic ign fitted and the pulse of the spark was so much more intense. I was always worried about points, a crude way of distributing current.

There have been a few complaints of misfiring with crane and loss of power at certain rev bands. Mine is smooth all the way to the red line.

280SL 1970

[A Dalton]

Now that you have a healthy ignition, I fnd you can open the plugs a couple of thousands with the Crane for an even better idle...

[Raymond]

Other than the XR-700 brain, what did you need to purchase?  Does this require a new ballast resistor?  If so, what value?  I have the hotter "red" coil in my car.  Will that be sufficient or do I need a new coil as well?  Where did you purchase yours?

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[n/a]

I have a Crane installed recently also and couldn't be happier. No problem whatsoever. I use the red coil and keep one of the ballast and have the transistorized unit removed to make room for the Crane.

Louis 70 280sl Red Auto

[TR]

Is the use of a red coil (as opposed to blue) an important consideration when one runs a Crane unit?

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

[Naj ✝︎]

Hi Ray,
 

quote:Other than the XR-700 brain, what did you need to purchase? Does this require a new ballast resistor? If so, what value? I have the hotter "red" coil in my car.

Kit (I got the 700/0231 works for both 046 and 051 distributors)comes with all the bits you will need.
Mine work fine with red coil and 1.8 ohm ballast.

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[Chad]

I keep debating whether to really actually finally do this comversion.  I have heard that some modification of the distributor is needed to install it.  Does anyone have some pictures of the install/modified part(s) that they might have taken during the install?  

This seems like a common enough and useful enough modification for the chassis that perhaps a tutorial posting with small pics of the key modifications would be useful to post as a sticky to the general forum.  Am I wrong, or will it be pretty obvious according to the manual when I purchase the XR700 kit?  Any volunteers?  Any reason at all to do the XR3000?  Reliability and smoothness are what is wanted.

Thanks again.

-CD-
1967 230SL, 113.042 10

[hands_aus]

Chad,

The Crane site has the install manual available for online download.

Have a look here  http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/90002000a.pdf




Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[JimVillers]

Just to add a little perspective, I ran a Crane unit for about two years until it began missing at the higher revs.  I swapped numerous components and changed setups and settings without changing the symptoms.  When I reinstalled the old points, the problem went away. Something in the Crane unit had failed.  

I have since installed a Pentronix unit ..... it installed very easily, the engine started on the first try and it has performed flawlessly for about four months.  It is much easier to install than the Crane unit.


Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[Bearcat]

i got an electronic ignition expert to install my crane system. He's been at this game for years and said the crane ignition was straight foward. He never mentioned drilling the distrib cap, modifying parts etc. A week later I am still pinching myself. The car used to stall at the lights and choke up if I didnt put it into neutral. Now its perfect. The big difference I notice is the rasp off the exhaust is louder....more power? Also anytime I buried the throttle into kick down and drove the car hard, the timing went out of sync. I have done numerous floorings since and it's perfect.My mechanic also reminds me my injectors were overhauled as was the pump which is also aiding the smooth running.

Leave it to the experts IMHO. Also my mechanic specifically did not hide the crane system box behind the battery. Said it was too cluttered and is visible in the engine bay. I know the die hards would grimace at the thought but so what. As the above posted , even your lawn mower doesnt have points.

[Naj ✝︎]

Chad
 

quote: I have heard that some modification of the distributor is needed to install it

I've installed 'Crane' in both my cars and no mods were needed. I used the smaller of the two six slotted discs that came in the kit. With that, I did not need to remove the brass post for the contact points. Also with the rotor notch in the shaft aligned with the timing mark on the distributor rim, it can be quite accurately timed with the distr still of the car. Final tweaking with the strobe.

http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/naj/2005102271454_Tim209.JPG

naj

[J. Huber]

Naj, would you say that the 700/0231 kit should convert the earliest of the 113 distributors (VJUR.6.BR49T) without much pain and suffering??

For some reason, I have long seen this whole electronic ignition stuff as blasphamy. But last time I saw my trusted mechanic, he said "the one thing I'd consider is switching from points to Crane." The problem is, he earlier tuned me up w/points, and the car has started and run perfectly for years now. It's one of those "ain't broke, don't fix" kind of deals right now. But I am still doing my homework.

James
63 230SL

[A Dalton]

Mechanical switching went out with covered wagons..
 I know guys like to keep the car stock , but there just is no justification not to go electonic conversion. There is no comparison ..hall effect is good and optical switching is even better..
Even your lawn mower doesn't have points anymore , so why would you want them in an MFI car that is dependent on rock-steady, healthy ignition specs?
 I would rate a point conversion on the top of the list for $$$$ value running improvement for 113s, bar none....
...

[J. Huber]

Well, good news is, it sounds like my mechanic knew what he was talking about! Here's a couple more questions. Once converted, how hard is it to go back? (I know there was just a collective "You won't want to, idiot" throughout the Pagoda Universe...) But just want to know. Second, if my car seems to be running good now, can I really expect improved power, etc? or is it mostly a starting thing? Many of the testimonies are coming off a lousy or "lumpy tickover" as they say. Will I see a difference?

James
63 230SL

[JimVillers]

Arthur .... Why do you say that optical is better than hall effect?  

I have had trwo failures with optical units so I am trying a hall unit.    

James ..... It is very easy to switch back to points.  I had a problem with my optical unit while driving across the country and I just re-installed the points at a gas station.  It only took about 15 minutes until we were running down the road again.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[A Dalton]

J
 Optical switching is just better tech than inductive switching.
Magnetic field induction  vs light beam interuption.
 ..and inductive is still susceptical to dist shaft wear and weaker spark at cranking speeds. Which is why you see guys with Hall Effect electronic ignitions upgrading to optical units.
 But nothing you will notice. Both are more than adequate and much better than mechanical switching.
 The only Crane complaints I have ever personally seen was one where the guy ignored a ballast resistor and fried the driver circuit, and the other I had to clean oil off the LED cuz the guy oiled the crap out of the shaft wick and the shutter wheel carried the oil out to the optics. Kinda like when you see dirt on a CD player optics.
  If one uses the Crane , I recommend mounting under the battery , but I add an aluminum plate to act as an added heat sink ..probably over -kill, but ....
 I think the Pert has finally solved their problems with the newer unit, so I would not be afraid of either unit...I just have an optical preference..

[TheEngineer]

I tried for one year to get PERTRONIX working: First, I bought P/N 1864LA foruse in my 051 distributor. It idled fine, but would not run over 3000RPM. Then Pertonix sent me the magnet ring with the .080 wide magnets. That is a narrower magnet. It would perform better, but not good enough. Then I bought the 91867 for installation in the 009 alu distributor. It would not run with the narrow magnet ring, but just fine with the standard magnet ring which came with the kit. But idle was poor. I actually observed the spark going away at idle sometimes. When that happens, the engine coughes and stalls. It was better when I set the idle speed to 850 or faster. I have returned the Pertronix and I'm using points again. It runs just fine.
P.S. The problem with the second Pertronix model (91867) was that it changed the timing by ten degrees (crankshaft) vs. points. That was enough to shift the timing of the rotor in the distributor away from the contacts in the distributor cap, in such a way, that at low idle, when the Pertronix had a weak performance anyway, there was insufficient spark to sustain operation. Because the Pertronix module incorporates no adustment for timing, I was unable to correct it, other than rotating the distributor cap. This would have involved moving the index slot five degrees. That would really throw off anyone else replacing that cap at some future time and I decided to return the Pertronix for credit. With Crane, the indexing is adjustable.

[JimVillers]

Peter .... That sounds like my first experience with the Crane unit.  It was a real trick to locate the pick-up so that the rotor would be in the correct position for the spark.  If you are off a little, when the advance moves the rotor, the spark will jump to the incorrect plug.  As I said, I installed the Pentronix in my 51 distributor and it worked correctly on the first try.  I can send you a picture of my distributor internals if that would help you.

Arthur .... I have thought that my Crane problems might have been dust or dirt.  I have another new unit and I might try installing it again.  I am just a little gun shy after having similar problems on two different cars.  Thinking about it, I have a hall sensor system on four of my cars.


Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[Naj ✝︎]

James,
 

quote:
Naj, would you say that the 700/0231 kit should convert the earliest of the 113 distributors (VJUR.6.BR49T) without much pain and suffering??

I think it would do fine. I'll check the BBB tonite to see how different the VJUR.6.BR49T is to the 046.
On checking the BBB and parts book:
VJUR.6.BR49T advance curves are different from an '046' but the dist cap is the same and going by that, I believe the 700/0231 kit should fit.
naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[A Dalton]

J,

 Nothing wrong with Hall Effect. Most manufactures use them as they are cheap to produce and easy to install. But if you see a scope switching pattern of a hall an optical circuit , you would see why I like optics. And optical coupling in IC chips is super tech.
 On the Crane , were you using the XR3000 ??.. if so, I do not recommend that for street use, as they use no ballast and run hot for normal driving.
All Benz 113s dist take the XR700 series , part# 0231 ..

[JimVillers]

Arthur .... I had the XR700 on my 190SL and a XR3000 on my 230SL, bypassing the ballast resistor.  I started with a red coil (external ballast) on the 230 and when I encountered problems, I tried a blue coil (internal ballast).  It was one of those frustrating items where nothing seemed to change the symptom except reinstalling points.  I am now using the same red coil with the Hall effect unit with the ballast resistor.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[A Dalton]

J

 That should be fine..
  The main reason for changing to either system is not so much that these are so good, but rather that mechanical switching is sooooo bad.
You can be sure if this tech option was available back then , there would be no point systems, that's for sure....
Like i say , there are a few low $$$ changes that can be made to our cars that vastly improve both performance and driving pleasure .. this is one of them..another is to switch to Halogen lighting..

[bjudd]

quote:Originally posted by A Dalton

J

Like i say , there are a few low $$$ changes that can be made to our cars that vastly improve both performance and driving pleasure .. this is one of them..another is to switch to Halogen lighting..

what else would be on the list of low cost / high return items?



bjudd
1969 280 SL 5 sp

[A Dalton]

Most of the things I am concerned with are just simple elect/mechanical mods.
 A couple that come to mind would be addition of a latching relay so the dipper is on the stalk, adding a ballast by-pass relay for early models, a cabin over-ride sw for CSV, later alt w/internal reg., and later starter for higher torque....stuff like that.
Some mods are just bringing the earlier vintage up to the later..[ ie-starter,rear disc, etc]
 There are also sound systems, anti-theft, tire sizing, and other personal type mods , but the ones I mention are design changes that upgrade the workings without radical change..and can easily be changed back..

[Benz Dr.]

You know.......

That MFI system is pretty old stuff and really isn't up to the test. I recomend everyone scrap that in favour of at least an electronic system. And while you're at it, that goofy steering box has to go. Nothing but rack and pinion will do.

The brakes are a joke. Better fit ABS on that puppy.

 ('' Nothin' but the best for my dog. Not a speck of cerial.''
 Frank Zappa:  from the LP Overnight sensation.
 Song: Dirty Love )

Of course a CD radio is already installed. I want power windows and door locks. Heated seats. No! Make that  'cooled ' seats. Power head rests. Ice cold AC.  Cruise control. DVD MP3 entertainment system. And give me one of those honkin' big coffee can exhaust systems. You know, with the chrome end so big you can drive right on in.....

I hate stopping for ah , well... you know..... ' breaks '
 I  want an on board *urnial.

I hate the way the trans works. I want a 6 speed, auto of course. In fact, I hate the engine too. I want a V12 turbo instead. With like about a cazillion valves and a bazillion camshafts. Might as well impress all my gear head friends...........

And can you believe that I have to put the top up and down by hand? NO WAY! Power top please.

What a complete piece of junk these cars are. I can't imagine why anyone would want a POS car like this.

Stupid old cars....... I hate them.

*As suggested by Ricardo V.

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