I WANT A PAGODA !

[keesing]

I WANT A PAGODA... I've been bitten by that pesky Pagoda bug, and won't be happy until I am one of you! I really want a 1967 230 SL... obviously, original, restored or in great shape, NO RUST, and of course under $20,000.

I LOVE THIS SITE - GOT ME HOOKED!
John
Santa Fe

[Chad]

I can understand why a 230SL or early 250SL, but why a '67 230SL? ...Only about 100 or so made it to the US. I believe only 180 were produced for world delivery. It may prove difficult to find one in excellent shape currently on the market, somewhat of a rare bird.

If the year 1967 holds sentimental value for some reason, you may want to consider an early 250SL of 1967 also. It would have the same desirable trim features. It would have disc brakes all around (I believe) and possibly a somewhat more durable engine (another thing I only conjecture).

I have a 1967 230... there are probably almost as many late 1966 230 out there that are titled as 1967 230 due to delivery issues than are actual 1967-build year 230.  (I am just conjecturing again) So there, maybe you encounter the issue of whether you want a 1967-delivery 230SL or a 1967-build 230SL. Many here would buy the best car no matter year of delivery or build, unless for sentimental reasons. If you really want to buy a 1967-build 230SL for whatever reason then compare VIN with the production data charts that this site will link to in the links section. You may be searching for some time and pass up nice cars.

Best of luck. Please share your reasoning if you like, I would be interested.

BTW, how was the luminaria fest in Albuquerque for the 300 year celebration??

[KevinC]

John,

Your enthusiasm is admirable. Personally, I would keep an open mind as to the year. I, like you set out with an idea in my head that I wanted a certain car (dark-colored, 280 SL for $20,000). I traveled the US (I fly alot on business) looking for my princess but instead, at that time, all I found was a bunch of toads  :x . I then opened up my parameters and found a very well kept light ivory-colored 230 in Napa, CA. The car turned out to be a winner.

If I can offer any one additional piece of advice...DO NOT buy a car until you have seen it from underneath on a "lift"!!! This will be a tell-tale sign whether you have a keeper or not.

Best of Luck and Keep Us Posted!

Kevin

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[keesing]

Thank you both for your replys... As for being a "67 - no great reasoning there, just have been looking and like all of the style features - as for 230... again no real rationale - just price! I am very, very open and quite anxious to find my baby!

The 300 year anniversary luminaria tour was spectacular! But almost as awe inspiring was the "Twinkle Light Parade" put on in Espanola, a small village of about 12,000 just north of Santa Fe and also the fireworks display on New Years Eve at Taos Ski Valley!

[Chad]

Glad to hear it, been to Espanola many a time. Spend time in the Jimez valley on occasions myself.

Spend some time seeing different cars, reading different thing and pictures about the differences, and buy the best car you can find with the transmission type and trim/options that you desire.  For me that equalled a 230 manual with power steering only, no other options. Have since found a sunroof hardtop but will likely use the original hardtop because of the clean look of it minus the sunroof seams and the chrome top strips, which seem to ruin the clean look to my eyes.
 
Anyway, as far as the 1967 cars in response to Kevin's email:
(1) Yes that's right, being you have the 8-blade cooling fan your car is almost certainly chassis 18254 -> onward.
(2) If your chassis is somewhere 18446 -> onward then it is considered production year 1967 by MBZ factory (any car after 10/1966 considered production year 1967). When dealing with the dealer they will consider your car a 1967 production of the VIN is 18446 -> onward, I guess.
(3) Your soft-top mechanism, which is only slightly different, may be either 230 or 250.  250 bars if actually built within 1967.

[KevinC]

Chad,

My car is #19213 which (according to the table on this site)was produced on October 1966.

I think sometimes we all get a little hung up on model year vs production (date)year. Consider this...in the '60's ALL maufacturers debuted the next model year right around September so even an Impala produced in October 1966 would likely be 1967 model unless it was a "leftover" Sound right?

Kevin

quote:Originally posted by Chad


 
Anyway, as far as the 1967 cars in response to Kevin's email:
(1) Yes that's right, being you have the 8-blade cooling fan your car is almost certainly chassis 18254 -> onward.
(2) If your chassis is somewhere 18446 -> onward then it is considered production year 1967 by MBZ factory (any car after 10/1966 considered production year 1967). When dealing with the dealer they will consider your car a 1967 production of the VIN is 18446 -> onward, I guess.
(3) Your soft-top mechanism, which is only slightly different, may be either 230 or 250.  250 bars if actually built within 1967.

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[Chad]

Kevin, exactly. Back in the day I believe that cars were sometimes given year designation also by when they were sold, or at least imported into the US.  Had an Aston DB2, an English car, built in 1951 but it was 1953 designation/titled... presumably because that was the year when it finally made it's way over to the US.

Truly the model year makes no difference and is an arbitrary number, which was my thinking on this issue of "1967 230SL" in the first place (at least whenever it is abstracted away from the physical car).

This stuff seems somewhat arbitrary to me.

I hope our new member is excited about the ups and downs of the car search ahead of him!  

[Mark in KS]

Welcome to the crowd.  As I read your message, I felt like I was looking in the mirror and talking to myself!!  Contrary to the VINs being discussed, I have a 1966 built 230SL that was titled as a '67.  It was purchased in Colorado Springs, CO.  I have the original Bill of Sale.  My VIN ends in 018272.  As for your passion, I wanted a late model 230SL before they jumped to the 250SL.  My reasoning was based on the notion that the tooling and bugs were all worked out late in the production cycle.

I was very lucky to get a virtually rust free body.  Good luck in your search.  Be patient and don't jump at a sweetheart deal (it probably isn't!).

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[rob walker]

yep mine is a very early 280 registered in 1968 but actually constructed 1967.

Rob Walker

1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
2004 230 SLK silver

[Tom230sl]

I'm glad we hooked another one! You really can't  go wrong with any model but  I agree you should take your time in finding a good example. It will save you many headaches and dollars down the road. Like many, my preference was also the 230sl because it was more of a pure sports car. I  love the fact that my 65 just misses the smog requirements. Later models became encumbered with emissions crap, repeater lights and other things that distracted from the pure look originally designed. Pick what you like best and I am sure you'll be happy.

[Ed Cave]

John (in Santa Fe)

If you haven't, you might check out www.oursl.com They keep about as big a stash of moderately priced SL's of all ages for sale as anyone I know.

Welcome to the group. My advice; don't rush the process of finding the right car for you. Good luck.

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA


1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0
2006 GS430

[keesing]

I really appreciate all of the good advice and those who have contacted me with cars! I feel like a kid looking to buy his first two-wheel bike! Your good advice has broadened my scope... I like all the Pagodas, but especially the early ones '65 thru '71 and I'd probably dig deeper for thr right one!
Boy am I hooked or what!

[KevinC]

Ed,

I actually purchased my car via oursl.com. The owner repsresented it well without a great deal of "embellishments" that you tend to get through other ad sources.

John,

Like the others have stated, take your time and buy the best car you can afford.

Kevin

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[Naj ✝︎]

Kevin,
 

quote:I actually purchased my car via oursl.com. The owner repsresented it well without a great deal of "embellishments" that you tend to get through other ad sources.

Did you buy one of Roy's own stock cars or one advertised on his site by a private seller. I'm looking for one  :oops:
Not sure how accurate private sellers descriptions are. I think his own stock cars are well described and pictured.

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[Kenneth Gear]

Three for sale here although all of them are in the top end price range...$45K+

http://www.dearbornauto.com/

Ken G
1971 280 SL
Silver/red

[JPMOSE]

I just purchased my '68 250SL, found on the "oursl" site and it turned out fantastic!  I should mention that some of the cars listed have been sold (the sellers obviously forgot to notify the site).  Another point worth mentioning is the price...many listings are lower once you call (especially this time of year).  I can tell you the white '66 230SL in MD sounds real nice and I considered it...but really wanted a dark green one (which is what I ended up with) .

Best Regards,

J. P. Mose
1968 250SL

[KevinC]

Naj,

I did buy from a private seller but in general, I felt that most folks I called via ads from this site were a little more straight forward about their cars than others I had talked to.

Still had to do all my own due diligence, however. Just was pleased with the "quality" of the site's advertisers, I guess.

Kevin

quote:Originally posted by naj

Kevin,
 

quote:I actually purchased my car via oursl.com. The owner repsresented it well without a great deal of "embellishments" that you tend to get through other ad sources.

Did you buy one of Roy's own stock cars or one advertised on his site by a private seller. I'm looking for one  :oops:
Not sure how accurate private sellers descriptions are. I think his own stock cars are well described and pictured.

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[Ed Cave]

That '69 that Alex Dearborn has; dark olive over bamboo with the Euro headlights looks like a really nice example. Its priced at 48k but looks to be worth every penny.

Once again, www.dearbornauto.com

Brian Peters in San Diego also has a few nice ones available right now priced from 26.5k to 99.5k [:0]

Find him at www.motoringinvestments.com

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA


1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0
2006 GS430

[saygold]

John,

What are you really looking for as your Pagoda - a driver in good condition, or a restored/restorable car for shows?

As you may have noticed, it would be hard to find a true "restored" car for $20,000.

Ken
230SL (euro, 4-speed)

[keesing]

I KNOW... 20K won't buy what I really want, and I was being a bit facecious with that number, but that's close to my limit - give or take a few thousand!

I do plan on driving it, babying it, and making (keeping)it as close to perfect as I can.
 :mrgreen:  :?:  :?:

[JPMOSE]

Well....back down to Earth since John did set a budget of $20k in his original message!  

John...your goals are in concert with mine.  Having just bought a beautiful rust free, all original car for less than $20k, I feel confident you will have similar luck.  As you know from private e-mails, I am keeping an eye out for you. I started with a 280SL in mind, but quickly realized that the model differences are minor and a limited budget would be better served on purchasing the best 230/250 I could find.   As I told you before, the majority of listings on www.oursl.com can be had for 25% less "right off the bat".  I would REALLY take your time and make sure you find a rust free example!  This will save you thousands in the future. I also try to find cars that have been owned by responsible (and some times wealthy) people, as they typically keep their cars better.  If you are mechanically inclined (I am) and can at least perform all the maintenance and minor repairs, you can save a fortune.  Since parts are rising in cost at a rapid rate, I would definitely stockpile the items needed (especially cosmetic parts) even it it takes a while to fund the labor (assuming various tasks will be performed by professionals).  Overtime, and with a reasonable outlay, you can unfurl a really nice car that is original, authentic and impressive to 99% of the population.  It may only be 93-95 points....but trust when I say it takes several thousands to achieve each point above 95%!  

When I owned other classics in the past, I became one of the other 1%.  I turned in a pedantic extremist and didn't care how much I spent to make everything perfect.  Eventually common sense prevailed and I sold off my cars (at a big loss when compared to investment). I find high-end restoration shops offering such extremes!  For a mere $75k to 150k.....I will restore your car so it ends up looking better than it rolled off the assembly line!  In actuality, this is what typically happens.  You will also note that the high end restoration shops are the ones selling cars at inflated prices....and they will eventually get their price.  Don't misunderstand me...there is nothing wrong with wanting a perfect car if you can afford it.  However, I have seen too many people spending their life savings on restoring cars just to keep up with the other 100 point club members.  I am an example of someone who became lured in this fashion but luckily didn't end getting hurt financially.  Then there were other club members who didn't look at very minor flaws and just enjoyed their cars (and drove them too).  They didn't win the big trophys but at the end of the day probably were happy with their cars for what they were....cars!

Now I am back in this game with a different point of view.  I refused to become obsessed this time.  John...keep me posted on your progress!  During business hours, e-mail me at j.p.mose@lmco.com, as I can't access my Yahoo account at work (due to the firewall).


Best Regards,

J. P. Mose
1968 250SL

[keesing]

J.P.,
 
Your post was very welcomed... After I began my search I was getting pretty depressed with all of the emails and posts saying that I was way off-base and implying that there was no such animal as a decent SL for 20K or less. I was beginning to think that all of those I found listed within my budget were scams and/or beater cars! Again thanks... I do believe there's some out there that will fit, and I can enjoy puttering with and of course "DRIVING"!
 
Your guidance and implied offer to be my "sounding board" is extremely appreciated and, I believe, will help me stay on my track!
 
Thanks for your support,
John

[KevinC]

John,

Fear not. I paid $19k for my 132,000 mile car last year and it was completely rust free with a recently re-built engine. No body work was required at all except for some paint touch up and having some door dings removed. It was like finding a needle in a haystack though. It took me seven months to find (looking at 7 cars in total...some I wouldnt have paid $10k for!).

This stated, I have since spent about $6,000 to get my car "right". Work included front end, fuel pump, radiator, new top, tires and re-building the differential). I will do the interior (seats/carpets later this year).

I am very pleased with the outcome and would not change one aspect of what I have done thus far. Suffice to say that I bought the best car I could find for the price I wanted to pay and then made some additional investments to make it a good looking, dependable driver. For the budget you've alloted, I would say that you CAN get a rock-solid good car but plan that you may have to make some refinements. You might be on the light side for a restored car as you probably have guessed by now.

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[n/a]

Hi, I ahve always been a keen fan of the SL Pagoda series and I am now seriously considering buying a car. My ideal purchse is a car which is mechanically sound whicc I intend to restore in over a 3 to 5 year project. I am planning to start viewing cars now, probaly viewing a 1965 230 sl this weekend.

I would however appreciate some tips in finding the right car. What should I look out for? What should questions should I ask? Where should I look for rust? What are the aspects that cost a lot to repair? What should I listen for when the car runs of should I take it for test drive? If paintwork is bad an need repainting, does it significantly affect the value at the end of a restoration project relative to cars in original paint?

Please let me know your thoughts; it will be much appreciated.

Thanks

[JPMOSE]

Regarding tips on what to look for, go to the home page of this site; download "Technical Articles"  and scroll down to "Buying a Car".  I use this along with postings on this Forum --  it was a great help!  



Best Regards,

J. P. Mose
1968 250SL