Ride Comparison

[Richard Madison]

Until a few weeks ago, I had never driven any 113 but my own. Two years ago I bought the first 113 I ever drove.

Ted (ted280SL) was nice enough (foolish enough) to let me drive his 1969 280 SL. Mine is a 1971. These were both 4 speed manual cars  which made comparison easier. The '69 has a 3.69 rear, while the '71 has a 3.92. I think this makes a difference in initial acceleration and top speed. I never hit top speed and I didn't notice a real difference off the mark.

I found the ride quite similar. Not surprising since they are both 280's. The biggest difference for me was Ted's original steering wheel seemed very big compared to the Nardi in my car. Maybe I'm just used to it, but I prefer the Nardi.

Maybe some of you have been able to compare 230's and 250's to 280's, any big diffences? or is it mostly tuning?

Thanks for the ride Ted.
Richard M

[n/a]

I've had 2 230's...both 4 speeds.  the '64 was a very early car (chassis no 1600) but had a disc brake rear end...and a nardi wheel, no power steering.  this car was very fast, great acceleration, great power on the hiway, had the early style steel exhaust headers...steering was tough,, really tough around town.

the 66 has the cast headers, the car is much quieter, no rattles, very smooth, no popping, the '64 really needed a bunch of mixture adjustments, and a variety of mechanical work to make it right...the 66 is right, it is great, has the standard drum brakes, power steering with the big original wheel...it revs higher on the highway, but is much more pleasant around town...but much slower.

all by the seat of the pants measurements.

-Lewis

'66 230 sl 113042-10-016238
67 saab sonett II #43 of 258
99 saab 9-5
00 saab 9-3 viggen conv

[ted280sl]

Richard,
   It was a pleasure having you over for our mini - tech session with minimal tech. It was interesting to note your observations regarding the differences in our rides.
   The steering wheel is definitely different. A friend of mine sat in my car and his first comment was how "retro" the steering wheel is. If I changed now he might not think my car is still "retro". It has to stay.
   Since we were driving mostly on local streets I did not notice any substantial difference because of our different rear ends.
   I have a stainless steel exhaust and based upon prior dialogue I was under the impression that the original exhaust system was much quieter. We agreed that although you have the original exhaust system my car sounded quieter.
   I replaced the hair pads in my seats. I believe it cost me $100 for the bottoms. My seats are much more firm than yours. (I feel real good about that investment now).
   Best regards,
Ted

[Benz Dr.]

Ever thought about how they got all that power out of a 2.3 liter engine? I mean , it didn't just happen. Someone spent some time on this.
 After the 300SL the 113 was a radical change and they wanted to get as much power out of this engine as was reasonably possible. A 230 has more HP per liter than a 280. The 230 actually has very close to the same HP per liter rating as a 300SL. So, how did they do it?
Dan c

Daniel G Caron

[Ben]

I've driven a 250SL auto and a 280SL auto before buying my '64 230SL. When I got my car running nicely it felt faster and more eager than the other two !

Hhaving done the engine its performing very well now and I love the sound. I innitially wanted a 280Sl auto as i never considered these cars to be sporty, just nice cruisers. Now I'm really happy I have a 230SL 4sp. !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

[Cees Klumper]

Whenever Dan poses a question I never get the answer right (sigh). A high amount of power from an engine? How about:

- relatively high compression
- "aggressive" camshaft timing (high lift and long duration)
- timing the ignition for power
- shape of combustion chambers
- good fuel mixture flow characteristics
- light flywheel and other "driven" engine parts

Mr. Shade Tree mechanic,

[W113SL]

quote:Originally posted by sonett43

I've had 2 230's...both 4 speeds.  the '64 was a very early car (chassis no 1600) but had a disc brake rear end...and a nardi wheel, no power steering.  this car was very fast, great acceleration, great power on the hiway, had the early style steel exhaust headers...steering was tough,, really tough around town.

the 66 has the cast headers, the car is much quieter, no rattles, very smooth, no popping, the '64 really needed a bunch of mixture adjustments, and a variety of mechanical work to make it right...the 66 is right, it is great, has the standard drum brakes, power steering with the big original wheel...it revs higher on the highway, but is much more pleasant around town...but much slower.

all by the seat of the pants measurements.

-Lewis

'66 230 sl 113042-10-016238
67 saab sonett II #43 of 258
99 saab 9-5
00 saab 9-3 viggen conv

Lewis:  I have owned my 250SL (early VIN) for over thirty years.  I have found after driving many 230's and 280's that there is a wide difference in how various cars perform.  My 250 was usually quicker than the 280's and always faster than any 230 I encountered.  This data is real data as we used to enter the various MBCA driving events every year for over ten years.  The quickest car I ever encountered was a 280SL Euro with linited slip and five speed.  I have also encountered a very quick 280SL Euro automatic with limited slip.

The truth is that these cars all respond well to tuning tricks to gain the most performance from them.  My car always ran better when the pump was adjusted a bit richer, static timing set at 8 degress BTDC and the plugs were fresh Bosch W7DC with new points and valves adjusted correctly.

I have heard that the earliest 230's with the steel haeders and early cam was a bit hotter than the later ones.  Also early 230's had 3:75 gearing not 3:92 or 4:08 like 250's and 280's.

Much of your seat of the pants feeling can only be corroborated by a 1/4 mile drag race which is the true indicator of hp/weight ratio.

Pete Lesler, NCT

[Albert-230SL]

According to the official data from MB, all three Pagodas (230, 250, and 280) had very similar performances when new. Depending on the source, you can even read that 230 SL had higher max. speed than the 250 SL... and that 230 SL with the 5 sp. manual gearbox was the fastest in the 0-100 km/h (0-60 mph)... So I guess that now, 32-40 years later, main differences between them are depending on the current shape and tuning of the particular car.

My ride comparison experience is about the steering:
6 years ago, just before to buy my Pagoda, I had the opportunity to drive a 230 SL from a friend. It hadn't power steering, and I found the steering very slow in corners (around 4 turns from left to right), and slightly hard at low speed. When I first drove my own Pagoda (with power steering)... what a difference! It's very fast (around three turns), comfortable when parking, and with very good feeling at high speed... so it's a very advisable option. Some time later, my friend converted his 230 SL to power steering (although it wasn't very easy. I think he took the parts from a W108 or a W111)

Regards,



Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[n/a]

A few things to remember:
On the data sheets from the constructor, top speeds are (manual gear) 200 km/h for the 230/250 and 195km/h for the 280.
The 280 is initially 40kg heavier than the 230/250.

and last, due to the emission constraint, remember that European models do perform better than the US specification...doesn't matter anyway, just try to cruise at 100 mph (165 km/h) on a Us highway without being stopped by an ugly Impala or Crown Victoria...

Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City