Pagodas in London, UK

[Rhodrich]

Hi there,

I'm currently on the lookout for a 230SL in the UK, and I seem to be having great difficulty finding one that's within budget, and not a welded up old dog.

I was hoping that my budget of GBP 20,000 (about USD 35,000) would find something reasonable, but having viewed 5 cars so far, I'm beginning to lose faith.  Whilst all the cars looked fabulous on the outside, with fresh paint jobs, looking underneath each of the cars told a different story.  Is it acceptable to have rough tack welding near structural areas, rusty panels hidden behind an inch of filler, and the general underside looking like a patchwork quilt, coated in underseal that could be hiding any number of horrors in a £20k car?

I'm quite flexible with regards to specifications - whether it's a manual or an automatic, or whether it has PAS is not important to me.  I'm also used to old cars, and I fully understand that these things are 30-40 years old, but I do want a car that's not going to rust to bits within a year of me having it, or needing continuous patches put on.  Am I asking too much?

[Rocket]

I would think it’s a nightmare trying to find a good one at any price. You ought to be able to get something quite good for that sort of money, its just finding one. For example, I was quite surprised how low some of the values were when speaking to an interior trimmer a couple of weeks ago. One of his customers had recently sold a white 230sl for GBP 25,000 which was apparently immaculate, the owner being very meticulous about it down to the last detail having all original documentation, manuals, toolkit, all just right. Also another one of his customers who apparently spent about GBP 60,000 doing up a 280SL, then sold it for about GBP 35,000. I have recently totally rebuilt my SL from scratch over a number of years (not quite finished), and was thinking it would be worth about GBP 30-35,000 but I am not so sure now, not that it matters to me particularly. It has cost more than this to rebuild including the cost of the original car.
 
I live in London and looked at about 20 cars before I bought back in 1998, all nails. Very difficult to find the right one. You might have to be a patient, and be prepared to travel. I would discount London dealers if you are after a good price, but that’s not to say some of them don’t have some reasonably good cars from time to time.

Rocket


230SL 1965

[AGT]

Rhodrich

I like the "welded up old dog" description. Maybe this could be a new concours category.

In my limited experience many 113s in the UK fall into the WUOD category. Our climate is too tough and the cars were not really cherished for the first ten years after production ceased. Most will have been restored more than once- sometimes well and sometimes badly. At one time someone had spent serious money restoring my 280; someone else had filled a chassis leg with newspaper! You can't tell until you chisel the layers of underseal off and by that time you probably own it and then the costs of fixing it are stunning.

It also looks to me as if much of the stock offered by our specialist re-sellers is WUOD. It doesn't shift and prices are artificially high. A decent source for a private purchase may be the classified ads in the Mercedes Benz Club Gazette.

If you can live with LHD I would recommend looking in the USA. Cars are better, restorations are better and prices are better - for example, the 230SL which JP Mose flagged up in the For Sale section a few weeks back which was around $20,000.

Nichola Colley wrote a very detailed post on the import process. The cost is about £1,500 for shipping and insurance and 17.5% VAT on your Bill of Sale price.

Regards
Andrew

[rob walker]

Rhodrich, challenging but not impossible to get a good car in your budget if you are prepared to go LHD but would think RHD would be very difficult for the reasons Andrew states.
I would rather look in Southern Europe rather than the states but thats just because I prefer the European specifications and looks. I picked up an unrestored car for 2/3rds of what you are prepared to pay, it has never been welded, has all the spot welds and grooves and untouched and solid boot floor. Yes it wanted a new hood, because it had not been erected for several years as it had lived in a sunny climate and the carpets were worn but a little time and money with a specialist can fix all, as long as the body is good. Where are you in the UK as I can show you what you can get for this sort of money, I am back toward the end of the month.


Rob Walker

1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
2004 230 SLK silver

[Rhodrich]

Thanks for the comments everyone.  I think I may just need to be more patient, save up some more money, and keep looking.  

I would go for LHD if I didn't believe RHD was available, but somehow, it feels 'wrong' to be driving a LHD in the UK (I had a LHD VW Beetle for a year) - I just know I would always be lusting after RHD ones.  I come from the VW world (I currently own a 1964 'Razoredge' Karmann Ghia and a 1964 VW Beetle), and in those circles, there are now more LHD cars available in some models than RHD ones (Karmann Ghias and Campers), due to the amount that have been imported in recent years from sunnier climates.  This has just made RHD cars even more desirable.

Incidentally, 4 out of the 5 cars I've looked at have been at London dealers.  I was expecting that if you pay a premium dealer price, you get a better car, but obviously I was wrong.  Looking around, it does seem that most of the cars available are sold through dealers though.  I guess I will have to join the Mercedes Benz Club.

Rob - I may well take you up on your offer if you're anywhere in or around London (I live in Kingston) - Thanks!

[AGT]

Rhodrich

Patience won't do in this business!

From this month's Gazette:

 - 1964 230SL. Red . 98,700 miles. Illness forces sale. £16,500 ono. Tel: 07785 718292;
 - 1969 280SL auto. Blue. Illness/redundancy forces sale. £19,500. Tel: 01603 427211;
 - 1968 280SL. White. 88,000 miles. Last owner 17 years. £25,000.  Tel: 0208 875 9494.

If the cars are in the London area a Roger Edwards or George Fraser service history would be a good sign.

No connection with any of the sellers. Good luck.

Regards
Andrew

[JamesL]

Rhodrich

Can only concur with the advice below - the Gazette is a pretty decent source. Another would be http://www.mercseller.com/

I sold my SLK through Richard and he has some pretty close links to the MB club in the UK. Some of his cars look pretty decent - he's listing 8 (hit cars for sale, search for W113). Richard charges both buyer and seller so it's an odd service but does remain relatively impartial - it's sort of a dating agency for buyers and sellers. I'd use him again. He also mentioned to me that he was/is sourcing a Pagoda for Mechatronik....

To be honest, I wish i'd known about it when i bought mine (from Silverarrows!)

[Rhodrich]

Thank you so much for all the leads everyone!  I'm so glad I've joined this forum prior to buying a Pagoda, rather than after: despite my research, I would never have come across these sources otherwise.

 

[rob walker]

Rhodrich, I will be up in Lecestershire, so quite a long way for you and as its a LHD car, and you want RHD, it will not give you much indication on what you can get for the money.
Let me know anyway, I will be there from Saturday night.

Rob Walker

1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
2004 230 SLK silver

[Rhodrich]

quote:Originally posted by rob walker
Rhodrich, I will be up in Lecestershire, so quite a long way for you and as its a LHD car, and you want RHD, it will not give you much indication on what you can get for the money.
Let me know anyway, I will be there from Saturday night.
Rob Walker

Thanks again Rob.  However, since your original offer, Naj off this group has got in touch with me, as he only lives a couple of miles from me.  He very kindly showed me round his 230SL yesterday evening, and a very fine car it is too!

[J. Huber]

quote:Originally posted by Rhodrich

Naj off this group has got in touch with me, as he only lives a couple of miles from me.  He very kindly showed me round his 230SL yesterday evening, and a very fine car it is too!

Some guys have all the luck!  
James
63 230SL

[Rocket]

Rhodrich,

I think we’ve got enough of us to make up a regional meeting as co-incidentially I also live about 3 miles from Kingston. If you want to see how not to restore a 230sl, email me off list! Ditto Naj.

Rocket


230SL 1965

[psmith]

Ok, so with all this chat about getting together in the UK, we want to see some glamour photos with a group of pagodas in a stereotypical English spot.  You know, Big Ben, quaint village, in front of a pub...

Pete S.

[rob walker]

Pagodas, quaint English village, pub...warm spring day. Ah the stuff dreams are made of!
D**n, my next weeks driving vacation in the UK and snow is forecast!

Rob Walker

1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
2004 230 SLK silver

[JamesL]

Rob

See the events board!

[rwmastel]

http://index.php?topic=5032

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Naj ✝︎]

Rob,

 

quote:Rhodrich, I will be up in Lecestershire, so quite a long way for you and as its a LHD car, and you want RHD, it will not give you much indication on what you can get for the money.
Let me know anyway, I will be there from Saturday night.

Rob Walker

Why not come down to London for a meet and greet?
We might even buy you a beer...

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[JamesL]

quote:Originally posted by naj


Why not come down to London for a meet and greet?
We might even buy you a beer...

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

Steady there fella. Let's not get a reputation for being friendly or anything

How was Essen?

[Rhodrich]

Gosh - I go away for a few days, and my thread seems to have turned into a South West London SL Club!  Excellent!

May have to buy mine first though before I'd be allowed to join  

[rob walker]

Tosh, Naj. Missed the end of this posting as had already left for my 15 hrs flight to the UK.
I will be in the UK during July and would definately come to a meeting as long as I can work the dates around this.
I actually was in Needham Market last week as part of my nearly 800 miles tour to see all the family.
Needham Market is a very quaint village, there are some fantastic roads and pubs, I lived only 5 minutes away from there for several years so can offer much advice.

Weather during the week was good apart from Tuesday afternoon, Hemel Hempstead to Suffolk, when it p****d it down, but not a drop came into the car. Superb driving, now back in Seoul and looking forward to July.
Also note Bowtie is in Leicester area, which is normally where my car is living...where abouts are you Bowtie?

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Rob Walker

1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
2004 230 SLK silver