Author Topic: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?  (Read 29138 times)

n/a

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Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« on: July 17, 2006, 20:54:54 »
Hey Guys;
I just read an article in Hemmings about the skyrocking prices for 190's...before I got my 280SL, I wanted a 190...bot when i look at my car, I think the lines are better. Just curious if anyone out there, given the choice, would give up their W113 for a 190?
A good looking car, but the performance must be dismal...anyone drive one? How do they perform?
R/
Joe :)

Benz Dr.

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2006, 16:32:36 »
The 190SL is the car I started on. At 22 years old it's a steep learning curve on a car that complicated.

All things are relative; 190SL's are harder to work on, most of the parts are far more costly and there's fewer good ones out there. As in all old cars there are lots of poor examples for sale.

The performance is less than 6 cylinder cars but really not that bad and their more than fast enough to hurt yourself. Properly set up, few cars from the era will handle as well. As an example, a racing 190SLR and a 300SL will lap at Lime Rock within a second or two of each other. The 300SL is much faster in the straights but the 190SLR will blow it away in the corners. People scoff at these cars but most of the time they've never driven one or at least a good one. They're about 13 seconds 0 - 60 ( in stock trim ) while a 230SL is about 11. A racing 190SL would be about 10 - 11.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
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1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

n/a

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2006, 20:07:13 »
Hey Dan,
Thanks for the info...but how is the exhaust note sound with only 4 cylinders rather than 6? Does a 190 sound wimpy, like some of today's Jap 4 bangers that sound like a leaf blower?

I surprised you say they are hard tpo work...I find th W113 quite a challenge...

R/
Joe
 :)

TheEngineer

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2006, 14:19:51 »
When I was young, my boss had a girlfriend and bought her a brand new black 190SL with red leather seats. I got to drive that car often and it was wonderful. Had a Jaguar XK120 at the time and the mercedes was much smoother, the suspension softer without being wobbly. Power was entirely adequate. It was a very nice car.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2006, 08:37:44 by theengineer »
'69 280SL,Signal Red, 09 cam, License BB-59U
'67 230SL, 113042-10-017463 (sld)
'50 Jaguar Roadster XK120, #670.318 (sld)
tired engineer, West-Seattle,WA

TheEngineer

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2006, 08:36:52 »
Yesterday I went to a car & hot rod show. There was a 190SL with a Lexus 400LS engine. The engine is all aluminum, has dual overhead cams and produces over 300 HP with the modifications. The gearbox is a Datsun 5 speed manual, the rear axle a 3.69 positraction from a 280 sedan. The fuel tank was pushed in locally to make a room for the bigger axle. The car weighs now 2700 lbs, which is 100 lbs more than before. The front springs were not changed because the engine does not weigh more. Because of the 3 fold increase in engine power, the rear wheels can be made to spin in first, second and third, depending on the pavement. The car took Best in Class, even though I had my very original  280SL entered in the same class (Foreign cars). Attached is a picture of the engine installation.

Download Attachment: DSCF0223.JPG
48.85 KB

'69 280SL,Signal Red,113044-12-007537,tired engineer, West-Seattle,WA
'69 280SL,Signal Red, 09 cam, License BB-59U
'67 230SL, 113042-10-017463 (sld)
'50 Jaguar Roadster XK120, #670.318 (sld)
tired engineer, West-Seattle,WA

Benz Dr.

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2006, 14:08:08 »
The 190SL has a pretty nice exhaust note. It doesn't sound too bad although the engine does tend to get louder above 4,000 RPM.

As for the the modified 190SL???? Well, what can I say? It looks nice, a lot of work and thought went into this but I'm sure it's a scary car to drive. This car has drum brakes that often don't work very well and are OK when perfect. I always warn owners to think about stopping well before they would normally do in a modern car. Even if it has brake upgrades it's still not designed to handle 300 HP. No thanks!
Imagine if they spent that much time to do a nut and bolt orinial car. It would likely place at or near the top at a 190SL Group convention, but then most modified cars tend to go in that direction anyway if they're done to this level.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

JimVillers

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2006, 19:09:03 »
The Lexus powered 190SL attended the 190SL 2004 Group Convention in Sonoma CA.  A very nicely done conversion.

The W113 and the 190SL are two totally different cars.  Why choose when you can have both.  There are a number of 190SL people also have W113s.    Both Dan and I are active with the 190SL Group.  In fact, Tom Hamilton, the Group President, also owns a 280SL 5-speed.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor, MGB 5-Speed
Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, MGB 5-Speed, MGB GT V8 RHD (real MG), 2016 SLK

joelj

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2006, 09:14:16 »
I would not trade my pagoda for a 190sl. I want the convenience of an automatic tranny, power steering and airconditioning. As for me these are creature comforts that make driving a car enjoyable. The 190 does not have any of these. though I really like the shape of the 190sl

Cheers,

Joel

1969 280sl auto
White exterior
Blue interior

Benz Dr.

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2006, 11:05:55 »
Tom will be here this weekend for the '' Meeting of the Clans '' event. He sold the 280SL 5 speed to a guy that's on this site. Houser, I think......

Tom has two 190SL's. A strawberry red one and a '55 190SLR that is supposed to end up at the classic centre in CA. He also has a very nice 300SL and a 280SL that I doubt he ever drives. I think he bought Clint Sadler's 190SL ( 190SL Group VP ) after he passed away last spring.
Tom has a few toys.......

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Bonnyboy

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2013, 23:48:23 »
I'm resurecting this thread cause - I just had to.

For several years I have been hearing rumours of a 190sl that has been sitting for some 30 years in a shed out in the boondocks.  2 weeks ago I had lunch with a couple guys and one of them said he knew where it was.  Today I got a phone call asking if I am interested in going to see "the" car.  Seeing that I resurected a 280SL they thought that I would be the obvious person to go and look at a 190SL.   I have to take a day off work to go and see it but what an adventure.

Now would I be nuts to trade my 280SL for a 190SL that hasn't moved in 25 years (or more realistically sell several motorcycles and my MGB).  After reading Dans comments above I kind of like the idea of a 190SL in my garage.   Anyone bought a 190SL restoration candidate recently?
Ian
69 280SL
65 F-100
73 CB750K
75 MGB
78 FLH
82 CB750SC
83 VF 1100C
94 FLHTCU
08 NPS50
12 Pro 4X

Benz Dr.

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2013, 03:01:11 »
The price of a nice 190SL has almost doubled since this thread started. Your call......
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

66andBlue

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2013, 03:14:44 »
Dan,
if the price of a nice car has doubled in 6 years, what about restoration costs? Triple? Quadruple?
What is your guess? I don't think they went down, unfortunately.  >:(
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

stickandrudderman

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2013, 07:12:03 »
The 190SL is a lovely car and I personally don't think it's complicated but they are even more expensive than a 113 to restore.
The ride quality is astonishing if the car is a good one.
I have a restoration candidate being delivered to my place from Poland this week so will probably re-aquaint myself with the 190Sl group.

thelews

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2013, 11:51:59 »

I have a restoration candidate being delivered to my place from Poland this week so will probably re-aquaint myself with the 190Sl group.

You should, the group has a new President, Jim Villers (above) and a new Newsletter.

I have both the 190 SL and 113.  They are completely different cars, the only similarity is some cosmetics.  Enjoy each for what it is, not make one into the other.  MB surely didn't.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

Garry

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2013, 12:01:10 »
Having owned both a 190 and a 280 and a 230 my preference is the Pagoda. It was a decision I had to make some years ago. My reasoning was that the 190 whilst a great looking car, was no where as nice as a Pagoda to drive and not really suitable for every day type driving. Enjoyed the 190 very much but like  my Pagoda more. Never regretted the decision to go with the Pagoda.

Garry
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1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
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2006 MB B200
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Benz Dr.

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2013, 15:56:05 »
Dan,
if the price of a nice car has doubled in 6 years, what about restoration costs? Triple? Quadruple?
What is your guess? I don't think they went down, unfortunately.  >:(


The labour to restore the car hasn't changed that much but the price of the parts sure has. I've been working on 190SL's for 35 years and I can tell you that they're definately not easy to work on. They might look like a simple car to fix but they have a lot of things about them that make almost every repair a challenge. Sure, if you want to simply fix something it can be done easily enough but high level restoration is much more difficult. Getting everything to fit and work properly is an even bigger challenge because most of the boy panels made today really don't fit all that well.
I'm 6'3'' and I can just fit into a 190SL so it has quite a bit of room for such a small car. Handling and performance is not bad while fit and finish is what you would expect for a MB. I drove mine as an every day summer car for about 5 years and found it to be very reliable. Not great on big four lane highways but very nice on two lane back roads. 
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Kemal

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2013, 17:43:27 »


Would love to see some pics of your 190SL  :)
Kemal
280SL
Manual LHD69

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Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

Markbhai

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2013, 18:58:27 »
Guys (and Gals)
When I first started looking I wanted a 190 and let's face it, it is a beautiful car and a real head turner. I could not afford one so I "settled" for a 113.

I have to say that I would not swap her for the world...but maybe for a 300sl.

Lo,.

Mark.

Neil Thompson

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2013, 21:32:54 »
Mark, put some vents in the side of a 190 and no one would know the difference, would they?

Neil
1964 230 SL RHD DB304 Horizon Blue
1957 190 SL RHD DB180 Silver
1988 R107 300 SL RHD DB199 Blue Black
1978 C123 230C 2dr Auto RHD Silver

Bonnyboy

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2013, 22:16:03 »
I mentioned the 190Sl to another car friend and she replied - "what about my Porsche - don't you still want that?  My husband is getting tired of it  (1963 356 Coupe)"

Now this is just cruel and unnatural punishment.   Up until yesterday I didn't even know that I was in the market for another sports car. 

I tried telling my wife that these things just follow me home....
Ian
69 280SL
65 F-100
73 CB750K
75 MGB
78 FLH
82 CB750SC
83 VF 1100C
94 FLHTCU
08 NPS50
12 Pro 4X

Kemal

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2013, 23:45:05 »
Kemal
280SL
Manual LHD69

thelews

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2013, 03:09:08 »
I mentioned the 190Sl to another car friend and she replied - "what about my Porsche - don't you still want that?  My husband is getting tired of it  (1963 356 Coupe)"

Now this is just cruel and unnatural punishment.   Up until yesterday I didn't even know that I was in the market for another sports car.  

I tried telling my wife that these things just follow me home....

That is a car you don't want to pass up, especially if you're talking about fun to drive.

And, not only is it fun, they have appreciated significantly.  A 356 is in any serious collection.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

Bonnyboy

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2013, 20:54:14 »
My buddies and I went and saw the 190sl I mentioned earlier - it is in much better condition than I was expecting so it will not be coming home with me anytime soon. 

The owner wants to sell but the car is at his mother's house and he doesn't want to bother her so we are going to try to have it delivered to my friend's commercial premises so we can put it up on blocks, take some pictures see if we can sell it for him.   

The details:
1960 190sl with a 1963 hardtop and a softop, 125 k miles, average quality repaint say 25 years ago,  sat since 1993 in dry garage in a townhouse project, Looks to be all there except for a broken front turn signal lens and missing knob on one window winder (window goes up easily without it), Blaupunct Radio, clock, guages, floor mats etc. all there, Seats have been recovered with a soft leather, slight rust bubbling apparent at body seams and around headlights, fenders have spot welds on them in engine bay, twin solex carbs look new, most chrome has slight pitting all over (too much to pollish out) except grill which looks to be in excellent shape (maybe it was replaced), Floors seems to be intact and the rear tire well is starting to rust but not through yet.  It would need a complete resto to get into car show quality but probably not much more than a few hours work to get it on the road. 


If anyone here is interested let me know and once we get it into my buddy's shop I'll give you more info. 
I'm not a car broker - we are just helping him out to sell his car.

Car is in North Vancouver Canada but should roll easily onto a car transporter or into a container for a long distance trip.   
Ian
69 280SL
65 F-100
73 CB750K
75 MGB
78 FLH
82 CB750SC
83 VF 1100C
94 FLHTCU
08 NPS50
12 Pro 4X

Kayvan

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Re: Trade your W113 for a 190SL?
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2013, 21:29:31 »
 190 SL = "Rich Man's Karmann Ghia"

Early Karmann Ghias are beautifully made......