mu-mu-mu-my pagoda

[PnHi]

Al, I happened across this thread today. Great reading.  Thanks and please keep it going.  This is something your son will remember forever. Never heard of snow tires.  LOL!

[dwilli3038]

Al,

Sounds like some great progress was made this week. Soon the roads in Oconee county will be graced with another Pogoda!

Daryl
'64 230 SL Buckeye Benz Scarlet interior and Grey top Serial # 508
'77 280SE

[rwmastel]

I believe there's a procedure for bleeding the power steering box.  Might be a good idea for your car that's been sitting a long time.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[66andBlue]

Al,
while you are working on your very first Pagoda you might be interested to learn that your 2nd - or is it the other way around? - anyway the 230SL-manual shift-"hellblau" - is on the market at your former colleague's place (Kenny). Give him a call if you are curious or nostalgic  

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

Al,
while you are working on your very first Pagoda you might be interested to learn that your 2nd - or is it the other way around? - anyway the 230SL-manual shift-"hellblau" - is on the market at your former colleague's place (Kenny). Give him a call if you are curious or nostalgic  

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

Alfred

If someone is claiming to have one of my old SL's for sale in Kansas City, they are feeding you a bunch of..errr...ummmm...telling you a story. My first SL (a black 65) traded hands a couple of times, was totaled and parted out when I still lived in town, and the other is the one that is out in my garage now.
I can only recall one "colleague" named Kenny (Mitts?), he was the brother-in-law of a highschool classmate of my younger brother. Not exactly someone who I would have kept in touch with over the past 20 years. But tell him "Al says hey" from Georgia!

Al

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by rwmastel

I believe there's a procedure for bleeding the power steering box.  Might be a good idea for your car that's been sitting a long time.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

Rodd
Thanks! I am aware of the P/S bleeder, any time the system has been open like my car has it is the only way to get all the air out of the system so it doesn't burp fluid out the resivior when driving.

Basicly a length of hose is put on the bleeder and returned to the resivior tank with the filter removed. I usualy use a wooden clothes pin to hold the hose in the tank. With the motor running and the front wheels off the ground, open the bleeder and turn the steering from one side to the other.
Carefull!! holding the steering against the lock will send full system pressure out the bleeder hose and it will spray fluid all over the place. Keeping that in mind turn the steering lock to lock a couple of times, close the bleeder reinstall the filter and it will be good to go.

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by al_lieffring

Originally posted by 66andBlue

Al,
My first SL (a black 65) traded hands a couple of times, was totaled and parted out

I recall now that this isn't quite true. The black 65 actualy fell into worse circumstances.

About 3 years after I had sold the car I was contacted by a detective from the Overland Park, Kansas Police. The remains of the body tub were found behind a location that was suspected to have been a chop-shop. The detective contacted me because the VIN found on the chassis was last registered to me. Though the car traded hands several times, no one bothered to register the car before selling it again and again, or for that matter reported the car as stolen.

Al  :O)

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by al_lieffring

Basicly a length of hose is put on the bleeder and returned to the resivior tank with the filter removed. I usualy use a wooden clothes pin to hold the hose in the tank. With the motor running and the front wheels off the ground, open the bleeder and turn the steering from one side to the other.
Carefull!! holding the steering against the lock will send full system pressure out the bleeder hose and it will spray fluid all over the place. Keeping that in mind turn the steering lock to lock a couple of times, close the bleeder reinstall the filter and it will be good to go.

So, you could send the hose to a glass container on the ground and manually fill the resivoir until the whole system has fresh fluid, right??

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by rwmastel

quote:Originally posted by al_lieffring

Basicly a length of hose is put on the bleeder and returned to the resivior tank with the filter removed. I usualy use a wooden clothes pin to hold the hose in the tank. With the motor running and the front wheels off the ground, open the bleeder and turn the steering from one side to the other.
Carefull!! holding the steering against the lock will send full system pressure out the bleeder hose and it will spray fluid all over the place. Keeping that in mind turn the steering lock to lock a couple of times, close the bleeder reinstall the filter and it will be good to go.

So, you could send the hose to a glass container on the ground and manually fill the resivoir until the whole system has fresh fluid, right??

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

Rodd

Sounds to me like a good idea.

It would take two people, one to turn the steering wheel, just running the motor with the bleeder open would not get all the old fluid out of the steering box, and another to pour fresh fluid into the resivior. I imagine it would take about 3 quarts of Dexron ATF to get most of the old stuff flushed out. It would never completyl
relpace all the fluid with new because with the bleeder open, fluid still flows from the box to the tank. But it would freshen it up to where it could make a difference.

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[al_lieffring]

This past week I have been working on getting the wiring back into the engine compartment. As I have been reinstaling the components I have been making repairs, the 10ga. cable from the starter to the alternator needed to be replaced, I put a new plug for the voltage rebulator wires on the alt, I installed wiring from the starter solenoid to bypass the balast resitor when starting, I then found the ignition switch wasn't making contact to start (Terminal 50) unless I held excessive pressure on the key. Years ago I had installed an old 108 key switch assy. because the original key tumbler had broken and fallen out. So digging through the box of electrical spares I found a screw terminal type switch, a 113 lock assembly with the key tumbler broken out. Then using the lock tumbler from the 108 assembly. I was able to fit it to the correct 113 lock. (The 113 lock is longer than a 108 assy. I had modified it to fit, but it wouldn't lock the steering column) and I transfered the wires to the other ignition switch and assembled it all to the steering column. Now the starter engages without puting a pipewrench on the key to get it to turn far enough and the column locks again when the key is removed.
I also found that the wire form the unprotected side of the fuse box to the ignition balast had been damaged and repaired poorly, I replaced it with proper guage wire and soldered ring terninals at both ends.
When I was under the dash switching wires around I also rewired the light switch so the driving lights power suply is connected to the parking light circuit, now they will stay on with the headlights. USA models came wired so they came on only with the park lights and turned off with the headlights.
I will also be changing the circuit so that the flash to pass will work on the combi switch.

More Problems     [!]

When I went to drain the fuel out of the tank I removed the plug and nothing came out, I unbolted the tank only to find there was still 6 galons of what used to be leaded premium still in the tank.
I poured it out through the filler neck into a bucket, removed the float sensor, and used my power washer to flush out as much of the sludge and sediment as possible. Eventualy enough junk got blasted out that the drain opened up and I was able to backwash through the suply and return fittings. As I was pressure washing the tank I was soaking the drainplug/pre filter screen in my ultrasonic clock parts washer. After about 30mins it came out looking like new.
I could still hear something inside the tank so I shook it around untill a tar ball about the size of a golf ball rolled out the filler neck.
I tried to salvage the float sensor, but it was so packed so full of tar that the resistance wires were ripped out when I removed the canister that surrounds the float. I experimented by taking a length of wire from a rheostat, but It didn't have enough resistance and the float would only bring the needle down to indicate 1/2 tank when empty.
New float ordered and on it's way.
I changed out all of the rubber fuel lines, even the return hose below the steering box that everyone forgets about.
I removed the fuel pump (still the original) I connected it to power and it wasnt drawing any current. The brushes are located under a  cover on top that removes with 2 nuts. I found the brushes were ok but the commutator needed cleaning. The motor wouldn't turn so I removed the cover plate from the bottom of the pump, It too was packed full of tar and varnish. I removed the inlet fitting and found a screen that was plugged up too. After the impeller was cleaned and reassembled, the pump worked perfectly, except for a tiny trace of fuel leaking out of the base plate O ring, will have to find a replacement somewhere.
Yesterday I put gas in the tank and ran the pump for about an hour then checked to see just how much junk got flushed from the tank into the filter. I was expecting to see the filter covered with red dust but the pre filter felt was still white and there were just a couple of chunks of sludge in the bottom of the canister. I had even ordered an extra fuel filter because I expected it to plug up right away. I'll save it for later.

I havn't tried to fire the motor yet, I am waiting untill I get the new header pipes bolted on, don't want fire shooting out of the manifolds onto the stater and the new wiring.
I will be crossing my fingers, in hope that the injection pump will do it's job without too much extra work, even though nothing else has seemed to on this project so far.

Later
Al  [:O)]



113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[al_lieffring]

Well I was hoping to have the engine running by now, but little things keep on popping up.

I finaly got the double diameter heater hose that goes from the metal pipe to the pump housing. I was now able to add the coolant, I went to open the heater valve, It was stuck, of course, I also noticed the valve wasn't centered below the access plug. I gave it a shake and the whole heater core was loose. I pulled out the blower assy and found the steel end plate and mounting brackets were detached from the core. I removed the core and soldered them back into place and while the core was still out, removed the valve and replaced the O-ring.
Reinstalled the blower housing and found the fan switch had the resistor coils burnt out. Lucky me I had a spare that worked. This one has a internal indicator lamp, think this came from a 220SE coupe don't think the pagodas had this feature. Also the defroster flap cable was broken. When connected the flap would only open 1/2 way, I cut the housing back about 3/4" shorter and that gave me enough extra cable. Also the right side heater flap had the actuator arm broken off. I remember having replaced the left side years ago. I ordered both flaps from MB and only got the left, was told both part numbers were discontinued and was lucky to have gotten the left one. At that time I just duct taped the heater door open (on). This time I cut out and glued two pieces of bakelite (or whatever that old cellulose plastic is), one to each side of the break to reinforce it so hopefully it won't break again.

I then filled up the cooling system, when I fill up a pagoda I pour the antifreeze in through the left side heater hose with a funnel, instead of trying to fill it from the expansion tank. This usualy gets all the air purged out from the system and the thermostat will open on first warm up of the engine without overheating.
Of course once I got it filled there was a leak, I thought at first it was the water pump. It was replaced when I tore the engine down but it has sat unused for 20 years, I thought the seal was shot. But a closer look revealed the lower banjo fitting bolt on the pump housing bleeder tube was loose.

Next step; fit up the new exaust.

Dear Doctor Z:
Why does my new Mercedes auspuffor have a Daimler Chrysler label on it?

I have always used a lift to install exausts and never tried to replace header pipes with a pagoda up on stands. I ended up having to remove the starter motor and unbolt the rear manifold from the head to get the pipes to clear the idler arm bracket.
I wish now that I had ordered the exaust while the motor was still out.
Got the header pipes in, got the exaust fitted in place, clear of all the rattle zones and welded the system together.
I wish I had a portable MIG welder back in '76, it realy makes it a lot easier than torch welding them together the way we did it back then.

I am now only short a set of spark plugs before firing up the motor. I havn't been able to find localy any non resistor plugs.
I guess it would run with them, but I know that non resistor plugs are what I should use in spite of what the application charts say.
I also have an aversion to using Bosch plugs. I had to chisel hundreds of them out of cylinder heads back in the '70s, They would break off right below the hex and the threaded part would be stuck in the head.
Our shop used Champion N7Y plugs (N7YC,"C" for copper core plugs came later) or N9Y's if we needed an little hotter plug. Champion now shows this as a motorcycle and small engine plug with "no automotive aplication". I'll stick with what I know and I ordered a dozen of them over the internet. I hope they will be here tomorrow.

Oh did I mention the (stick) shift linkage? It all seemed to be working just fine, That was untill I bolted the shift arms back onto the transmission. The bushings at the rear of the stationary arms felt a little loose, then as I unblolted the plastic cover under the boot every rubber bushing in the entire shift linkage turned to greasy goo and fell apart.

I guess I'll be calling Dave at Bud's Benz tomorrow morning and get a shifter bushing repair kit on order.

I'll keep at till the pagoda's back on the road. Maybee next week???

Al

   



113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[al_lieffring]

WAAAHOOOWHEEE!!!

I got the motor started and running this afternoon.

It fired right off but was way too lean to keep running. Once the motor warmed up, the thermostat opened and I got the timing set. It just took some adusting of the main rack mixture screw to get it smoothed out. I think I'll leave it a little on the rich side untill it has run for a bit and the injectors and rack get loostened up a bit. They have gotten out of the habit over the past 20 years.
Cylinder head bolts are retorqued and when the motor cools I will re-adjust the valves. I have always set them to I.004" and X.008", I had been told that this makes for easier hot starts.

The wheels are painted and look great. I'll go and get the tires mounted tomorrow.

May have to rig up some shift bushings till the new ones get here, b'cause I'm ready to put some miles on this thing. Cant wait.

Al   :O)

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[al_lieffring]

Yesterday I took the rims in to get new tires mounted. While waiting I was running the motor trying to get it set to run a bit smoother.
I noticed there was no air noise from the cold start filter when the motor was cold, so I took loose the thermostat from the slide and saw that the cold start override screw was holding the slide closed. I never could figure out what this was supposed to be used for. When I set it to the normal position and the motor was run till warm, the engine now was running way too rich. About the time I get the fuel rack set to where it starts to sound realy good, the motor stalls, and much to my horror the fuel pump isn't running. Thoughts go racing through my head of having to replace the pump ($$$), and maybee even the fuel tank (more $,$$$) because chunks of stuff from inside the tank have come loose and destroyed the pump after just an hour of running.
I pull off the coffee can and remove the pump, I temporarily install a used late style pump that I have as a spare, It ran, but sounded like it was only running at 3/4 speed.
I took the original pump over to the bench, took the brush cover back off, the brushes still look good, I cleaned the commutator again, just to be sure,  also checked the intake screen, it was clear and the motor turned free, so I thought I would give it another try. When I got the original pump reinstalled I noticed that the + wire terminal nut was bottoming out before the cable was tight. Uf Da! I added a washer and sure enough the pump was running again.

The tires are back now and look great, White sides mounted out, of course.
Nick thought we went through a lot of trouble sand blasting, grinding, priming, sanding and repainting the wheels just so that a 1" strip of blue paint will show between the hub caps and the trim rings. "No one will know the difference" he said. I had to explain that you can't hide anything under a coat of new paint. Painting over cruddy rusted wheels would have resulted in cruddy, nasty looking blue wheels. There are just some things that you can't take short cuts on. And If I just wanted to hide the wheels I could have saved a set of full wheel hubcabs, I used to have stacks of the things from alloy wheel upgrades.

I'm going out now to take the car down off the stands, roll it out of the garage, under it's own power, and sweep up the mess that has accumulated underneath.

Later

Al :O)

   


113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by al_lieffring

Thoughts go racing through my head of having to replace the pump ($$$), and maybee even the fuel tank (more $,$$$) because chunks of stuff from inside the tank have come loose and destroyed the pump after just an hour of running.

Al,

I hope you cleaned out that old fuel system before starting the car!

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks Al, for keeping us all posted on the progress. Sure sounds like you are finding a lot of issues but you also seem to be dispensing with them at very quickly each time (most of those issues would take me 5 times as long or more to sort out ...). Hang in there, soon you'll be driving to The Knack tunes again.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[al_lieffring]

quote:

I hope you cleaned out that old fuel system before starting the car!

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

Yes Rodd.
That was back in the Sep. 17 posting.

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[al_lieffring]

I havn't posted an update lately so here goes

When I first rolled the car out of the garage under it's own power, the first thing I noticed was the toe setting on the front end was so far out that I was leaving black tread marks on the drive. Appearantly I had the incorrect drag link on the car when I last set the toe and now that I have the proper 111 part the toe was off by a mile. Once I got the shop halfway straightened I brought the car back in and set the front end by eyeball, by sighting down the sidewalls of the front tire untill it lined up with the sidewall of the rear tire, It was toed-in so far that sighting down the front sidewalls aligned to the center of the rear tire.

I took the scan of the fuse box lable that was sent to me by a member on the forum, Thanx again. Because my printer doesnt index the print onto the page I was having problems getting the print to line up on both sideds. I ended up croping away all the white space on the back side and replacing the back ground with a color that matched the yellowed paper of the scan. When I trimmed the card stock down to the front side, on the back though it was slightly out of ling there was no white areas to show through. Though I don't speak French or Spanish It looks great!  

Next day I drive the car over to the tire shop for a proper alignment.
On the return trip to pick up the car, I spot it parked in the lot. It had been so long since I had seen the car anywhere but in my garage for that frist instant my thought was, "Hey there's an old SL over there! No,wait...it's mine".

Drove it home, tracked nicely down the road, but the speedo would only go to 40mph. I recalled that the speedo should read about twice the tach in 4th, so when I got home I took apart the speedo head and lubed it up with synthetic clock oil. Then I chucked up a short end from a speedo cable in my jewlers lathe. With the lathe motor reversed (turning clockwise) I spun it up to 130 mph for about 3 miles to loosten it up. Put it back in the dash and set out on a test drive and I also stopped to fill up the fuel tank.

The speedo still only would read 45 mph. I determined at this point that the spanner nut on the trans rear flange was loose. I decided to head down the highway to see how the alignment bahaved at road speed. I pulled onto the road wound it up to 3000 on the tach in 4th gear. Then the motor died whitout a sputter or miss, just nothing. I had enough inertia to get onto a siding and it would go no further.

The only tool I had with me was a screwdriver I found under the seat, I popped the hood and removed the cap, the points looked pitted so I used the tip of the screwdriver to scrape the face of the points as clean as possible. Placed the coil wire on top of the zundfolge where I could see it from inside the car cranked it over, no spark. I then called my older son on the cell phone, told him where I was and needed a ride home.

Since the car was off the highway I didn't feel any urgent need to get it home untill the next morning.

Daybreak arrives and I set out armed with a tool box, test lamp, remote stater button, a different coil, and condensor (I didn't have another set of points). Just for the halibut I crank the car over, it sputtered once but didn't start. Checking the coil wire again there was just a tiny trace of a spark. I file the points till they are shiny clean,  now no spark at all.
I determine with the test lamp that somewhere between the coil and points something is grounding out.

I take out the terminal bolt and the fiberwashers and find a 4mm lock washer laying on the breaker plate grounding out the points lead.  
I have this terrible habit of laying things on top of the battery when I'm working and I guess this washer rolled off the battery into the distributor.

Put everything back (but the washer) and it drove home. Andrew and I had to drive back later to get the van.

Yesterday I took apart the transmission mount plate. Does there realy need to be 14 bolts? Took out the flex disc and sure enough the spanner nut was loose. Now why didn't I think to check this before I installed the trans?
Uh I dunno.
I did remember to change the fluid though.

Because banging on a spanner nut with a chisel never works very well I decided to make myself a spanner socket. The nut was loose enough that it came out by hand. I took it along with me to the hardware store and found a 1/2" drive socket with the same OD as the spanner nut (an 1-1/8" socket) Then using my RotoZip tool's flex shaft and a Dremmel metal cutting disc I cut out four teeth that fit into the spanner nut. When the socket got too hot to hold by hand I would cool it in a bucket of water so it wouldn't loose its temper. I put it on my 1/2" impact and it worked perfectly.
Download Attachment: spanner.jpg
27.87 KB
I'm still kinda gun shy about the ignition points, havn't driven it yet to check the speedo.
This morning I ordered a PerTronics point replacement kit. I looked at the Crane breakerless kit. And I just didn't like kits that are "Universal Fit" That usualy means they are made for everything but fit on nothing. I have read through the threads on these systems and lost of people prefer the Crane, but I'd rather go with a made to fit system. Also I think that no external switching box is a plus.

I'm going out to test drive the speedo now, I'll throw a unicycle in the trunk in case the ignition drops out again. This time I'll have a ride home.

Al   :O)

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[Longtooth]

Kudo's Al... your posts are indeed enlightening and you tell your story (adventures of discovery, identification, & solutions) very well. .... honestly too, it seems... mislaid washers, etc let us all relate to it... which is at least one reason I look forward to your posts.  Thank you for taking your time to post.

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
'02 SL500 Sport

[al_lieffring]

hey Ya'll

Keeping a unicycle in the trunk for an emergency ride home seems to be working. I drove about 25 miles out on the road this afternoon, the car drives flawlessly. Just the way I remember. Possibly even a little better. I've been keeping it under 3000 revs and 60mph for the break in. But it is still a thrill to drive.

Tightening up the flange nut also made the 2-3 shift a lot smoother.

Now I have to work on making the car look like something. I started out with some soap and water, didn't help much, but it's a start. The interior is starting to show some white again from under the 20+year layers of grime.

Al  :O)

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[al_lieffring]

Hey Ya'll

In order to make my car driveable enough to get around safely I need to get some floor boards down below my feet.
 
Download Attachment: right floor board.jpg
81.67 KB

Replacing rusted sheet metal takes some planning before tearing in and hacking away everything that looks rusty.
In the case of my car, there would be nothing left. So a plan needs to be made as to what extent the repairs will need to go.
My car will never be a show car, so replacing everything that even shows a trace of rust is out of the question, on the other hand I have higher expectations than just pop riveting in pieces of roofer's flashing and stuffing the holes full of old news paper and smearing them over with Bondo filler. You wouldn't believe the things that I have found under a layer of bondo on these cars. Fortunately I am the only one to have ever done any body repair on this car, so I don't think I'll find anything hiding inside the quarter pannels.

I have some new reproduction sheet metal on order, the lower panels (where the mouldings mount) for the front fenders, and 3/4 reproduction fenders for the rears, a left outer rocker pannel (the one that screws on) and a pair of rear frame sections (The dog leg in front of the rear axle) The rest I plan on making out of flat sheet stock.

The right floor board in the photo is in much worse shape than the left because of the hole that was drilled for the Kuhlmeister's evaporator drain (yellow arrow) was directly behind the tire and allowed the water that splashed up to fill up the floor pan. I rember once finding an inch of water there when I pulled up the carpeting.

I worked this week on welding new pannels in on the driver's side floor. Because the frame box section of the rocker pannel has rust damage too, I chose to start by welding in a piece of 11ga. sheet steel bent into an 1" angle. I welded this to the outer frame box section giving this section some added structural strength to mount the floor to.
There was a small hole about the size of a pea under the accelerator pedal by the time I got the pedal mounting bracket cut away, there was a hole almost 8" square to repair. I had to remove the mounting brackets for the fuel and brake lines to get them out of the way before I could do any welding there.

I kept a large fire extinguisher handy, but I came up with a handy way to put out the rubber undercoat that would burn as I was welding, I kept a pump-up style lawn sprayer filled with water by the car while I was welding, when a little fire would pop up I would give it a spritz of water and go back to welding. In the past I had used buckets of water and wet rags this would leave puddles of water everywhere, not a good idea when electric welding.

Hopefully by about this time next week I'll have some reproduction sheet metal here and can start tearing into the fenders.

I think instead I may want get the holes in the floor welded up and then start driving the car around so I get enough miles racked up to change the break in oil. Then I'll start ripping away at the exterior sheet metal.

Al  :O)



113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[Cees Klumper]

Great to read the updates each time.

One question - in general, what does one put over new sheet metal to keep it from corroding ("Deja-vu all over again") and, more particularly, (how) will you replace the undercoating that burns off from welding?

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by cees klumper

Great to read the updates each time.

One question - in general, what does one put over new sheet metal to keep it from corroding ("Deja-vu all over again") and, more particularly, (how) will you replace the undercoating that burns off from welding?

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

hey Cees

That's the $64,000 question. How to make metal repairs that are rust proof (resistant). I once had a sales brochure from Mercedes about the upcoming release of the new /8 models, It showed in detail all the procedures the new 68 models went through to make them "The first truly rust proof automobile". Well that didn't pan out very well, after a couple years of winter driving we all know what happened.

My basic plan is to seal both sides of all the metal surfaces, at the factory they were submurged in a bath of electrostaticly charged water based sealer, the light grey layer, then the bottom surfaces were coated with a rubbery substance that I think was heated and sprayed on in a molten state, then the whole thing was primered and painted.

I have a undercoating spray gun

Download Attachment: Body Schutz.jpg
63.38 KB

This sprays on a viscos tar like substance that takes about 48 hours to set up, then it can be painted over. Yesterday when I was at the auto parts store I saw that they had gallon containers of spray on pickup bed liner, This when set up has a harder surface than the tar based under coat. I dont know if there is a product that sprays on with the extremely high amount of texture that the original rubber coating had.

When finished every metal surface should be coated if possible painted. Unpainted primer isn't a very good metal sealer, primer has a high solid content (calcium carbonate, gypsum, chalk and the like)  it is designed to fill up surface irregularities, but this also makes it poruos so if left unpainted moisture will eventualy soak in to the metal.

My goal is to get about 10 more years of life out of this car, If if holds up longer, that will just be a bonus.

Maybe by then someone will be making a reproduction "body in white" that I can transfer all the running train onto. We all can hope any way.

Al  :O)

   


113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[mdsalemi]

Full disclosure: I own a car wash.

Now, gents, this is not rocket science, not even close.

If you regularly wash your car, particularly the underbody, and especially so after driving in salty or muddy roads, you will almost certainly prevent 98% of rust or rot.  You can buy pressure washers relatively cheap these days, or you can fabricate an ersatz one with some pipe and a car wash nozzle.  The nozzles are like $2 each.

I see people who wash their car (not 113 owners, just regular folks) every spring, whether it needs it or not.  I see other people come in 3 times a week throughout the year, and after EVERY snowfall without exception.

I've seen the same vintage cars here at my car wash, like 1992 Taurus, 1994 Chevy Pickups, etc. some rotted so bad one good pothole will land them in a million pieces.  These are the once a year washers.  I've seen nearly identical vintage vehicles in showroom condition.  These are the 3x a week washers.

If you get the junk off your car or truck regularly and don't let it build up, rust and rot will NOT be a problem.  And, when you do start to see some issues, such as surface rust where there is a paint chip, or where the schutz is peeling off, fix it.  Ignoring this stuff is like ignoring a breast lump on a woman.  No good will come of it.

The way most of us 113 owners pamper their cars, FURTHER issues probably won't happen--it's taking care of what the last owner did or didn't do that makes things bad...

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[ja17]

Hello Cees and AL,

Metal repairs are great, however the heat from the welding burn the coatings off the rear side of the panels. In addition a lot of acids and other corrosives are introduced from the welding process. The metal must be thoroughly cleaned and treated before priming and refinishing. The repair must be sealed off completely to prevent moisture from ruining the job in the future. Clean and coat the backside if possible. You can flush clean repairs a commercial solutions before priming. I used to use a bare metal conditioner made by 3m. It etched the metal and neutralized any acids before priming. It also removed any surface rust from bare steel.  Like AL said, primers are porous and should be covered with finish paint before prolonged exposure to moisture.

If you are doing chassis repairs use a good rust primer then a finish paint and then the undercoating. I have used the 3M body schutz that Al mentioned. It is a good product and you can get close to the original texture with the special gun which is not that expensive.  The product is also available as 3M rubberized undercoat in aerosols but is a much finer texture.

I have used the Sekkens ( of The Netherlands)  body schutz which is an original Mercedes OEM product at times, from what I have heard. With it's gun the texture is perfect as original if done correctly. Surprisingly it is a water base product! After it dries it is very durable. It accepts paint well and repairs are invisible on the undercarriage if done correctly.

As Michael has said, keep them clean.  I like to drive the car after washing to help blow dry moisture out of the crevices. Repairs must be made watertight and sealed and treated to last. The Eastwood Co. has lots of restoration products and information available online.

Mercedes or it's suppliers will also supply all original paints, primers and undercoats if you can take the the sticker shock.

Newer professional products like two stage epoxy primers are superior but harder to use, more toxic than the old lacquer based primers.

Nicely formed all metal repairs, hammer welded into place are nearly a thing of the past. Cost and lost know how, making these techniques extinct except for in the better restoration shops. New synthetic fillers are economical, easy to use and can last when used correctly.  The same rules apply, make good repairs, treat the metal, seal the repairs well and keep it clean.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Longtooth]

On washing cars frequently... it depends on where you live I think.... when I lived in Germany in the 80's in winter the car went thru the local car-wash 2x a week at least.... and whenever the sun was out for a day I spent time going over little creases the car wash didn't get done as well.  Of course, the Germans have their TUV (car inspection to retain registration and license stickers) every 2 years I think it was... and rust somewhere on the undercarriage or wheel wells had to be fixed first (car went over an inspection trough... inspectors and lights shining up into the under body).... so the car-wash business in winter and spring was always booming... seemed like there was one at every other gas station... and it wasn't free (no free car-wash for a fill-up).

On the other side of the coin, my '67 250SL has spent it's entire life in Santa Clara Valley (original purchase and both other owners), and doesn't have any rust on it anywhere (... except on the exhause pipes)... get's washed only to keep the dirt off (i.e. so it looks good), and waxed 2x a year or so.... I keep it covered so I wash it about 4x a year or a little more often when I drive it in inclement weather... no salt on the roads in winter around these here parts.... mostly.... except on 17 (over the hill to Santa Cruz when it snows hard enough to stick around a day or so.... no coastal salt air get's this far inland (40 miles?... 30 by the way the crow flies?).... and it's generally not a humid environment.  

Around these parts the Sun's the killer for the paint and rubber.

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
'02 SL500 Sport