Insurance/Appraisals

[miltnme]

I am researching insurance for a 1971 280sl (auto)(mint condition) from my local insurance company (Triple A) as i live in northern california, not sure if i should use them for such an old car?

should i use an insurance company that specializes in these older cars? since i have never owned one, I'm not sure how to go about insuring it.

they tell me i should also have it appraised, does anyone know of a professional  appraiser they could recommend in the San Francisco Bay Area?

many thanks
jonathan

[KevinC]

I use Grundy.com. $190.00 premium per year full coverage. Cannot be your daily driver, though. No appraisal required.

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[miltnme]

thanks kevin, i will check Grundy out.

jonathan

[J. Huber]

A couple others that many of us use: Hagerty Ins. and American Collectors Insurance. I use the latter and I think my premium is 145 or so. I did have to provide an appraisal early on. I also think mine has a mileage restriction (2500?): however, my gauges are in kilometers and I am lousy at math...  :mrgreen:

James
63 230SL

[miltnme]

thanks james, i will also check out Hagerty and American Collectors.

jonathan

[France]

Hi Guys,

We use American Collectors. They allow mileage to your specs (we chose 2000 a year, but extra miles are cheap) and they didn't ask for an appraisal--just how much we thought the cars were worth.  We said $30K each, and so the Jag and Carling are both insured for around $300/yr.  However, as I said in an earlier thread about this (Jonathan, you can get a lot more info by using the search feature ), the test of how good insurance is: how do they react to a claim...

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

[mdsalemi]

Be careful with the details on insurance.  Read all the details carefully and make sure what you are being offered will work with your intended use.  I went with Hagerty.

Many "classic" car insurers put mileage limits on your car; Hagerty does not.  Some only allow the vehicle to be driven "to and from club events"; Hagerty does not.  Others go with an appraised value; Hagerty does an agreed value.  Others insist you OWN (that's different then a daily driver) at least one other vehicle; Hagerty does not, as long as you can provide proof you have another daily driver.

I like to drive my car OTHER then to and from club events--a nice drive on a nice day--even going to get bagels on a Sunday morning.  I don't know if I'll put 500 or 3,500 miles on the car in any given year--this year I'm approaching the higher number.  We actually don't own any other cars--my wife being a Ford exec, we have management lease vehicles.  Based on these factors, we could not go with anyone else but Hagerty.

The Michigan "collector" plates from the state, with a reduced and long term registration fee, also carry a "to and from club events only" restriction which is why I don't have them.  We pay a higher rate for even collector vehicles here because of a "catastrophic claims assessment" which is a significant portion of the overall cost on collector insurance.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[miltnme]

I spoke with American Collectors, Hagerty and Grundy and for what my needs are, HAGERTY was the best one for me.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Jonathan

[waqas]

Can you please describe what exactly clinched it for you in choosing Hagerty as opposed to the others?  Thanks

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

[Douglas]

Hagerty has been excellent for me. I've had them for several years, so I can tell you rates have been reasonable/consistent, service has been excellent, and when I needed them with two different claims relating to an old sedan I own, they were there for me 100%.

The only downside I can see is that if you have a really high-end SL, they wouldn't value it for top, top dollar.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[waqas]

Alright, I've some nit-picky questions. I certainly want an "agreed-value" policy (hence I need to go to a classic car insurer like Hagerty), especially to cover theft from home, etc. However, these policies usually come with restrictions (like no driving to work, to run errands, etc).

- How do you guys work around these restrictions?
- Do you simply assume no coverage when you violate these restrictions?
- If you've violated the restrictions at some point in time, does it void coverage during subsequent and legitimate use? (if they find out about past violations of their restrictions, like driving to work? -- call me paranoid)

I haven't gotten any definitive answers from their agents yet.

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

[KevinC]

Its probably how much you want to push the envelope, if you will. I use Grundy and I don't use the car for driving to work. I believe the rest is common sense...in other words probably best to avoid Home Depot and the supermarket but honestly, wouldn't you rather avoid these places anyway? If you stop at Starbuck's, is that an errand? Probably not. If you get hit on some nice rural roadway I dont think they will say, "Aha! We saw you at the laundromat last year so no go on the claim!"  :mrgreen:

So much for that. The main thing you need to ask yourself is "how much risk do I actually take when out on the road?" If the car is your daily driver (which Grundy doesn't allow), then you should insure it as such. If you just take it out for a spin now and again you are likely in the category of "specialty" and therefore this type of insurance should work just fine.

***The author of this post assumes no responsibility concerning any future insurance claim of WAQAS   ***

quote:Originally posted by waqas

Alright, I've some nit-picky questions. I certainly want an "agreed-value" policy (hence I need to go to a classic car insurer like Hagerty), especially to cover theft from home, etc. However, these policies usually come with restrictions (like no driving to work, to run errands, etc).

- How do you guys work around these restrictions?
- Do you simply assume no coverage when you violate these restrictions?
- If you've violated the restrictions at some point in time, does it void coverage during subsequent and legitimate use? (if they find out about past violations of their restrictions, like driving to work? -- call me paranoid)

I haven't gotten any definitive answers from their agents yet.

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[Raymond]

I talked to four different companies and went with Hagerty.  It's unlimited mileage, and includes three fifty-mile flatbed tows a year.  (Nice to know that's available just in case.)  The fine print is all important.  Hagerty fit me.  The customer service could not have been any better.  Period.

When I bought the car, I had the company that inspected it for me give me an appraisal.  It was $14,500.  I sent in that with a couple of photos.  After I rebuilt the engine and had it painted, I called to raise coverage to $25,000.  They asked me to send justification.  I sent them a photo of me standing next to the car, holding the show trophy.  They bumped the value with no further effort.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[waqas]

Interesting... I just spoke with Hagerty and they stated a limit of 3500 miles/annum. I asked specifically for unlimited mileage and they said they didn't offer that option (or even a 'tiered' mileage allowance). What gives?

Regarding non-allowed use, I do like to drive to work (where I have the luxury of an isolated/ding-free parking spot in a garage). This allows me to enjoy the car on an almost daily basis. How do all you owners of 'daily-drivers' handle this?

As far as I understand, there's not a single regular insurer that offers an agreed-value policy. If you get into a wreck, Geico or whoever will give you nothing (blue-book value = 0) for your car. Am I mistaken? Is there a regular insurer who gives full coverage on daily drivers and values the car correctly?

Thanks for any and all info (and apologies for hijacking this particular thread).

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

[Ed Cave]

As I've mentioned before in another thread, I simply use State Farm for my 2 "collector cars". Combined with our 2 daily drivers and our home, the package price brings the insurance cost of the two old cars in line with the prices I got from the specialty insurers mentioned throughout this thread. With State Farm I have an agreed upon value; $65k for the Pagoda and the same for my '73 911S.

They limit the mileage to 2,500/year and require that I report mileage annually and provide updated photos front, back, both sides, interior and engine bay every couple of years. There is no restriction on where I can drive them, i.e. work or whatever. Like WAQAS, I am fortunate to have a reserved, very clean, very secure, no possible dings parking space in my office building's underground garage so I don't hesitate to drive either of them to work on occassion (just not on these 90+ degree days we're having right now!).

At these (relatively high) levels of coverage, they each run the exact same $221 every 6 months. These rates will vary by location as I know they are rated based on zip code. Living very much right in the City of Atlanta I'm sure my rates are at a premium.

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA


1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0
2006 GS430

[waqas]

Ed, thanks for the excellent info!  I'll check with State Farm in the morning.

Kind regards,

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

[steven0401]

I use Chubb for all my cars and all have agreed value. I believe the collector cars are underwritten for Chubb by Grundy. Other cars - such as 97 Land Rover Defender 90 and 97 Turbo S - have stipulated value much higher than blue book and no mileage limitations. By using Chubb for all the cars, I get multi car discount that includes all cars - collector and regular. They have requested appraisals where the value of the car was unusually high for the model, but have accepted receipts for purchase and restoration in lieu of appraisal. When appraisal required, a $200. expense totally worth it. Obviously agreed value on collector car with no mileage or use limitation kicks it closer to a regular insurance rate for a comparably valued car.

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by waqas

Interesting... I just spoke with Hagerty and they stated a limit of 3500 miles/annum. I asked specifically for unlimited mileage and they said they didn't offer that option (or even a 'tiered' mileage allowance). What gives?

Regarding non-allowed use, I do like to drive to work (where I have the luxury of an isolated/ding-free parking spot in a garage). This allows me to enjoy the car on an almost daily basis. How do all you owners of 'daily-drivers' handle this?

As far as I understand, there's not a single regular insurer that offers an agreed-value policy. If you get into a wreck, Geico or whoever will give you nothing (blue-book value = 0) for your car. Am I mistaken? Is there a regular insurer who gives full coverage on daily drivers and values the car correctly?

Thanks for any and all info (and apologies for hijacking this particular thread).

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

...well, things change I suppose.  They had no mileage when I signed up; maybe they added it.  They have never asked for any mileage statement(I've been with them for 5 years now); no annual pictures, no additional appraisals (even after raising my agreed value) or anything.  When I signed up I gave them an appraisal, some photos and that was it.

As I said, check the details and go with what is right for your intended use.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[norton]

I use Hagerty and have a 5000 mile a year limit, I also use Hagerty to insure my 94 E320 coupe, agreed value, same 5000 mile limit, but $1000 less a year then I was quoted by Citizens. I have never been asked by Hagerty for a mileage statement

Mike Halleck
Chesterfield Mi
71 280SL
68 250SL (parts car)
94 E320 Coupe

[vincesy]

My Farmers Insurance agent finally admitted that basically my policy with them will not pay out or cover my car adequately.  He says the appraisal will not necessarily help either.  So I feel like I'm driving an uninsured car.

I applied to Hagerty and was impressed with their service, their policy benefits and rates (about 1/3 of what I pay to Farmers for an agreed value of $35k) but they couldn't accept my application because they feel the Pagoda is a back up car because there are 2 drivers in the household and only 2 cars.   I explained that my wife and I carpool everyday since our office is just across the street from each other but that didn't help.  Even proof that the pagoda was driven less than 500 miles a year didn't help.  

I just wish I read this thread sooner (just about a month ago) when my wife and I had four cars between us.  We're now down to two (including the Pagoda) so I may just buy a junk car just to get a Hagerty policy.  

By the way, when I applied online, they let you choose the number of miles per year.  I wonder if they'll verify it like Ed has to with his State Farm policy.

So it seems there's been some changes at Hagerty from when some of us here got their policies.

[waqas]

Thanks to information from Ed Cave (see below), I ended up going with State Farm. With an agreed value of $20k, I ended up with comp/col/liab for something like $290 every six months. This may seem high, but it's my primary driver, there are no mileage limits, and I can drive it anywhere at anytime! (ditto on all the photograph/appraisal requirements)

I don't mind paying the higher price for the complete freedom I get...

WAQAS in Austin, Texas

[john collins]

As an insurance adjuster, I must echo a previous post - be sure to get an AGREED VALUE policy, not just a "stated value" policy or some other type.  Only if there is an agreement as to the pre-loss value can you be sure to receive that amount in the event of a total loss.  Insurance policy limits are ceilings, not guarantees, and most policies state that they will determine the value of the loss at the time of the loss, not to exceed the stated limit.  An agreed value policy is just that, an agreement between you and the carrier that the car was worth $XX,XXX.XX.  If the car is stolen, etc., that is the amount you will get - no dickering about the condition, value, or anything else.

Also, as the person who has to investigate these losses, do not mess with the rules they set up.  I have seen people make material misrepresentations on the information they provide on the application, or during a claim, and it may void the entire policy.  I would hate to see that happen to someone who has already suffered the loss of their prized pagoda.  Better to pay the extra few dollars and keep your policy in force.

[ChrisInNashville]

I need to agree with John.   If I agree to the rules, then I live by them.  I've clarified many questions with my agent...and gotten him to document them in writing...with reference to the "chapter and verse" in their underwriting guides.

I am with Cincinnati and my use is restricted to "enthusiasts activities" which includes an occassional ride to the hardware store and even the office.   It does require that I store the car in a "locked garage", but I've confirmed that this means "over night" and does not exclude the occassional uses I note above.