Waxing - what do you use?

[mille]

Winter is approaching  :x  and our Pagoda is preparing to hibernate. Before winter I always wax our cars and wonder what kind of wax/polish do you use? I have been tempted to buy the expensive Zymöl wax, but has so far been doing fine with regular Turtle Wax Polish and Sealant.

Have a nice winter

Finn Lundorf
1964 230SL Euro 4-speed silver metallic with black leather interior
1988 230 E silver metallic
1985 Porsche 911 Carrrera 3.2 silver metallic


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[J. Huber]

I use Meguire's. Usually, I polish with number 7, then seal with number 26. I usually use their carwash as well. Then I use Quick Detail between washings & waxings. Works fine for me. My paint is not show quality -- but then again not too bad either.

James
63 230SL

[Cees Klumper]

I have the Protech coating on my paint, which I had applied right after I had my car repainted in 2001. Protech should never be waxed or polished, only washed with its own mild carwash and hot water. The paint appearance is like new and water always beads off. Of course, having the car garaged 95% of the time must be a big help too.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[JamesL]

Swissol, which has seemingly been renamed Swissvax

[vincesy]

I use Griot's Best of Show Wax and in between waxings the Speed Shine is very handy.  My car's is nowhere near show quality but I konw many people who show their cars also use Griot's.  It not expensive either.

[Bob G ✝︎]

Remember that the term waxing is a sacrificial coating made to bond between the paint and road debree allowing you to flush away the contaminatence ontop of the paint with a mild ph-7 neutral car wash shampoo.

When we use the term sealnts we are speaking of amino funtional polymers these are man made in vented in Germany during the second ww-2. Much like wax amino funtional polymers are longer term protection and not as greatly affected by heat, car washes , and acides from birds and pollution. however againthey are not permenant and must be applied according to the manufactor recommendations.

Is there Teflon ingredients in paint sealant?
According to a letter from 3M Teflon must be added at a tempture of 8oo degrees to become effective, must to high to apply to paint. so be ware when the lable says tefelon forified. this is a  misnomer.

What is the best type of Carnauba wax. Pure white refined from yellow carnauba  gives the deepest and best protection to paint. Some carries are low grade solvents other are organic in nature and have less of a chance of drying out the top coat of paint when applying wax.

What are the best products to buy?
thoses which companies stand behine and offer technical asistance. there are many brands of automotive  cusmetic in this industry try and pick one that is consistant in batch quality and not back year brewed. will give you the best results.

What does a polish do:
A polish restores the brillant luster to paint some have mild cleaners or clays that brake down to fine particals to polish away deeper swirl marks for more agressive cleaners and compounds. Some polishes are pure in that they use feeder oils to wet the paint  and hide some of the inperfections so that the wax will give the paint a rich deep wet look. These are usally applied by hand or a low speed orbit DA and soft foam pad.

What are compounds ad paint cleaners for?
these are machine applied and like polishes break down to finer and finer particles till they have removed inperfections from the paint. Some are sinthetic and man made products use crystalline silica as a main abrasive. Nwe compounds use utilize new families of abraivies whose particles continually break down as you buff. these products will not work satisfactorily above 1750 rpm. they will break down too quickly and go to a polishing size particle.

What are glazes?
Glazes like polishes are ment to fill not remove paint inperfections and are used by boy shops sfter buffing to allow the paint to cure and maintain some protection  will the carriers exhaust from the paint.
Glazes have no lasting value and are not a lasting product, I referr to them as car make up.
More to come how to hand polish your car like the professionals. the story behine  micro fiber and cotton towels.
Happy motoring
Bob Geco

[vincesy]

I'm still not clear on the difference between sealants and wax.
Is it sealants are more for protection and waxes are for appearance?
Can one apply one on top of the other or can they be applied only in a certain order?  I have a problem with paint which seems extremely vulnerable to bird droppings.  I'd wipe off the droppings within a few hours but already the damage is done beyond fine hand polish.  I've read people who have used baking soda solution but I'm wondering if sealants would offer better protection than wax.  Thanks.

[Jonny B]

It is always fun to read about these more subjective kind of things. I have used Griot's wax and it has worked well. I have converted to Zymol for the SL however, it is great stuff. And no, I have not gone over the edge, and gotten the estate glazes, I use their regular product.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

[dwilli3038]

I use Meguires products

Daryl
'64 230 SL Buckeye Benz Scarlet interior and Grey top Serial # 508
'77 280SE

[hauser]

I have always been partial to Meguiars until I started using Zymol products.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[paults1]

I use Zaino Brothers Show Car Polish. It is superior to all the others I have used. I learned about their products from a publication named "Guru Reports" which tested 47 polish & wax products. The Zaino was rated #1. Go to www.zainobros.com & go to www.gurureports.org

Paul, '63 230SL

[Vince Canepa]

I have used Meguiars polishes and glazes for over 30 years.  I wax with Harly wax (it is a small California family company that has nothing to do with the motorcycle company).

My car has the old Herberts enamel.  I polish with Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover and then wax.  If I am going to show the car, I apply #7 Show Car Glaze after the #9 and before I wax (it makes the paint so deep and liquid looking that it always stuns).  If I see anything other than minor swirls I work the area with #2 Fine Cut Cleaner.

Harly wax is a high quality carnuba.  All of the above are effective and cost effective.  I get most of my products through Larry Reynolds at www.carcareonline.com.

Lately I have been using a Porter-Cable random orbital polisher and the variuos Meguiars foam pads.  It does an better job than I have ever achieved by hand.  It is especially effective on the modern two stage paints that are so hard.

Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex

[JPMOSE]

Big Meguiars fan too....always have used the biege color professional series.  I also have some Meguiars Gold Class and NXT Generation (their latest and greatest...can't see any difference personally).

Best Regards,

J. P. Mose
1968 250SL
1987 560SL

[Longtooth]

Why the switch to Zymol wax for those that used to use McGuire'st products?

Also, what's this about "Oxidation (paint-starvation) occurs when paint loses its natural oils."

From my chemistry and materials knowledge, oxidation occurs because the polymer's used in paint products
1) have residual chemical's that are part of the polymer but weren't completely reacted and that are therefore subject to react with oxygen, and
2) have radicals which are not tightly chemically bound and that therefore will be displaced by oxygen molecules over time.  Temperature and humidity will normally increase the rate at which this occurs.

I've never heard of a polymer that contains "natural oils."  There is an additive to polymers that are elastomers... elasticizers .... which are loosely bound to the polymer chains and allow the polymer chains to stretch and/or contract under temperature expansions/contractions of the underlying metals or base layers without 'breaking' the bonds holding the polymer chains together.  All elasticizers have relatively low volatility and evaporate with time no matter what.  They can't generally be 'replaced' by wiping it on.  These are certainly not "natural oils" though... they're introduced specifically to the chemical stoichiometry at the time of formulating the chemical.  

The reflective shine desired is a function of the surface finish of the paint and any surface treatments supplied.  The smoother the surface of the paint, the more it reflects directly than it refracts... scatters light on reflection.  Wax's and other surface treatments designed to provide high levels of reflection just fill in the low spots (valleys) and flow on the top surface to a relatively smooth surface that

1) reflects better .... less refraction... from the surface,

2) is transparent enough to allow light to penetrate to the pigmented paint surface (or clear-coat surface) and reflect back thru the top smooth surface with less refraction.  

The "deep" shine is nothing more than higher levels of reflection than refraction and absorbtion.

The index of refraction of both the underlying pigment or clear-coat and the wax or other surface treatment determine how much of the incident light (light hitting the surface) is reflected off the surface directly, and how much is transmitted thru the surface to the next layer... etc. until some of the incident light is reflected, and the rest absorbed.  

The combination of surface roughness (smoothness microscopically),and index of refraction of the materials determine how much it "shines" and how "deep" the shine is.  

All this is simply to say that surface treatments that fill the valley's in the surface finish and which produce smooth top surface of the material used as the treating agent produce the highest sheen.... and have an index of refraction that have the most reflection in the visible spectrum of light, will produce the best "shine" and "depth".

For anybody that was ever in the military and had to 'spit-shine' their boots or dress shoes, know that the trick to obtain the highest shine was to use a match (or better yet a zippo lighter) to 'melt' the wax already on the boot in relatively liberal doses... and then 'spit-polish'... luke-warm water was better than spit, btw, but both were effective.  The melted wax would fill the leather's pores and other imperfections and create a top surface of the wax that was then further smoothed by the cotton and 'spit'... the spit or lukewarm water was used as a lubricant (luke-warm to keep the wax from being so hard on the surface that it broke apart) and so that the fibers of the cotton didn't dig down into the wax and start the process of creating small grooves or valleys in the surface.

I think the "paint loses its natural oils"  stuff is pure marketing bs.  Putting a layer of something that doesn't let oxygen penetrate as fast into the paint (a polymer of some sort... lacquer is a polymer too) is simply reducing the rate of oxidation of the pigment or in the case of most cars now, the clear-coat.  In fact, the clear-coat should do 99.9999% of the protection of the pigment layer without anything else... so a wax on a clear-coat simply fills in the low points on the clear-coat surface and protects the clear-coat from oxidation at an otherwise faster rate.

When somebody develops a polymer that doesn't age by oxidation or nitrogenization,  and is still tough enough to withstand normal abraision and has high adhesive and cohesive strength, and is still transparent, let me know... the high tech business in the entire world will buy it by the trainload.

Addendum:
I forgot to mention the role of UV light on polymers (paints)... UV light is an energy source that polymers and other organic materials react with .... the reaction occurs at the ends of the tails and the UV light causes a radical to be formed (a simple radical is a collection of a few Carbon-Hydrogen atoms on a polymer, with an oxygen-hydrogen (-OH) ion tail end or some other ionic portion), and creates a highly reactive point on the remaining chain... the UV also simultaneously reacts with the surrounding oxygen forming ozone (O3).  The ozone reacts with the radical that's been broken off the main chain by the reaction with UV light energy.  This process actually "eats" the surface of the organic material ... it's used in a process called "UV Cleaning" to rid a surface of an organic contamination layer... and in stronger doses of both concentrated UV and Oxygen the rate at which this occurs is accelerated.  For example a few angstroms of most organic materials can be removed by putting the part under a high intensity UV lamp and providing a draft(to carry away the radical's broken off the exposed organic surface) for a few seconds to a minute or two... depending on the depth of th organic material and the UV intensity supplied.

The exact same process occurs at a far lower rate on the polymer's used in paints and clear-coats... therefore eating away at the surface of the polymer exposed to sunlight (UV).  A wax coating on the surface (besides giving it the shine as discussed above) is actually a sacrificial surface... letting the UV 'eat' it away while it's protecting the paint (clearcoat) surface from oxygen... the absense of which prevents the UV from forming ozone at the surface of the paint so that the radical created by the UV from the organic surface of the paint / clearcoat has nothing else to react with (the ozone is what it would normally react with), so simply re-reacts at the surface it came from in the first place.

Clearcoats are designed as best as possible to reflect UV spectum of light and not absorb & trasmit them... preventing to the degree possible the UV reaction with the pigment layer.

Paradoxically, some polymers also "harden" or "cure" after being applied by being exposed to UV light (notably acrylate based polymers), but thereafter are scavenged by the UV reaction with the surface in the presence of oxygen (ozone).  This 'curing' process is actually a similar reaction as the scavenging one... but the UV is used in this form to cause the "hardener" in the polymer to become 'free' to react with the rest of the polymer system... by the UV reacting with a radical specifically included in the "hardener" to prevent it reacting with the rest of the polymer system (in epoxies, this is called the "resin").  Once the UV hits the "harder's" radical, the radical breask off and leaves the "harder" able to react with the "resin" and "harden" or "cure".

If insufficient UV intensity or time is applied then some of the "hardener" remains unreacted with the "resin" leaving a less than "hard" polymer "paint" or "clearcoat".  Not a good thing, since the unreacted "hardener" is now also free to react with parts of the system it wasn't designed to react with, as well as oxidative reactions, hygroscopic reactions, etc. creating a material not necessarily that which was designed for the intended job.  

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
'02 SL500 Sport

[Bob G ✝︎]

I would of  never guessed that a contention of our car group  are Meguires fans. It also seems the Zainos-brothers show car polish run a distant 2 place and then there is Girot's Garage runner up.
all very good companies.I guess the reason I like the zymol line is the partisapation you get workingthe wax into the cars paint , the aroma is over poweringand the thought of excluscivity  that unlike women's costmetics make it an experiece that is really very sirreal if you are messaging the paint with a rare white carnuaba that goes on butter smooth and looks in a wet deep gloss you could fall throught.
Zymol has resisted temptation to mass market the good stuff .Cheers so be it your car wax should be like your tools its the life blood that keeps the paint looking good and properly cared for will last for ever.
Of course the problem is price Concous the first of the estate-waxes stars out a $150.00 and progresses to vintage for $1,800,00 free refills for life. Charles Bennett has made it an art to modifiy waxes long be fore Ford discoved the Ford discovered the secert to building limiited production Mustangs with goobs of power and selling them at premiumns of $80.000 for a shellby GT converible  on 200 copies made for the intire world.
Now you would not want to take a $5.00 tin of wax to that pait job, I know I would not.
Bob Geco

[Longtooth]

Carnuba Wax(es0

4. Waxes
Waxes are esters of fatty acids with long chain monohydric alcohols (one hydroxyl group). Natural waxes are often mixtures of such esters, and may also contain hydrocarbons. The formulas for three well known waxes are given below...
 
CH3(CH2)14CO2-(CH2)15CH3 spermaceti
CH3(CH2)24CO2-(CH2)29CH3 beeswax
CH3(CH2)30CO2-(CH2)33CH3 carnuba wax
 
Waxes are widely distributed in nature. ... Carnuba wax is valued for its toughness and water resistance.
 
Source: http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtTxtJml/lipids.htm#wax

Carnauba wax is recovered from a variety of palm tree which grows almost exclusively in northeastern Brazil. Carnauba wax forms on the fronds of the trees and is recovered by cutting and drying the fronds, then mechanically removing the wax. Impurities are removed from the wax by melting and filtering or centrifuging. Carnauba wax is distinguished by its hardness and high melt point, combined with an ability to disperse pigments such as carbon black, properties which make carnauba useful in printing inks. It is also used to gel organic solvents and oils as a component of solvent and paste formulations. Carnauba polishes to a high gloss, and is used to polish items such as leather products, candies, metal surfaces, etc.

The melting point of pure carnuba wax is 84C (183F).... so it's a solid below 183F.
Source: http://www.npra.org/news/facts/waxesqa.cfm


Therefore, the "pure" carnuba wax's used for polishing cars/floors and the like are emulsions of carnuba with some other material (carriers). It's not at all clear to me after searching the net that any of the application polishing methods reach the melting point of Carnuba, so I'm of the opinion at present that the emulsions contain small carnuba wax particles which can deformed plastically and thus be spread out and into crevasses and "valleys" in the surface finish, but not melted.  I could not find any information regards carnuba wax hardness's or other properties ... other than "hard."

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
'02 SL500 Sport

[wildatheart]

I notice Autoglym hasn't been mentioned yet; I like it because it goes on and comes off very easily when polishing. Do others here have any opinions on this brand?

Jaap

1970 280SL
1971 BMW 2000 Touring
1965 Volvo 122S
1986 Ford Capri 280 Brooklands

[Tom230sl]

quote:Originally posted by Longtooth

Why the switch to Zymol wax for those that used to use McGuire'st products?

Also, what's this about "Oxidation (paint-starvation) occurs when paint loses its natural oils."

From my chemistry and materials knowledge, oxidation occurs because the polymer's used in paint products
1) have residual chemical's that are part of the polymer but weren't completely reacted and that are therefore subject to react with oxygen, and
2) have radicals which are not tightly chemically bound and that therefore will be displaced by oxygen molecules over time.  Temperature and humidity will normally increase the rate at which this occurs.

I've never heard of a polymer that contains "natural oils."  There is an additive to polymers that are elastomers... elasticizers .... which are loosely bound to the polymer chains and allow the polymer chains to stretch and/or contract under temperature expansions/contractions of the underlying metals or base layers without 'breaking' the bonds holding the polymer chains together.  All elasticizers have relatively low volatility and evaporate with time no matter what.  They can't generally be 'replaced' by wiping it on.  These are certainly not "natural oils" though... they're introduced specifically to the chemical stoichiometry at the time of formulating the chemical.  

The reflective shine desired is a function of the surface finish of the paint and any surface treatments supplied.  The smoother the surface of the paint, the more it reflects directly than it refracts... scatters light on reflection.  Wax's and other surface treatments designed to provide high levels of reflection just fill in the low spots (valleys) and flow on the top surface to a relatively smooth surface that

1) reflects better .... less refraction... from the surface,

2) is transparent enough to allow light to penetrate to the pigmented paint surface (or clear-coat surface) and reflect back thru the top smooth surface with less refraction.  

The "deep" shine is nothing more than higher levels of reflection than refraction and absorbtion.

The index of refraction of both the underlying pigment or clear-coat and the wax or other surface treatment determine how much of the incident light (light hitting the surface) is reflected off the surface directly, and how much is transmitted thru the surface to the next layer... etc. until some of the incident light is reflected, and the rest absorbed.  

The combination of surface roughness (smoothness microscopically),and index of refraction of the materials determine how much it "shines" and how "deep" the shine is.  

All this is simply to say that surface treatments that fill the valley's in the surface finish and which produce smooth top surface of the material used as the treating agent produce the highest sheen.... and have an index of refraction that have the most reflection in the visible spectrum of light, will produce the best "shine" and "depth".

For anybody that was ever in the military and had to 'spit-shine' their boots or dress shoes, know that the trick to obtain the highest shine was to use a match (or better yet a zippo lighter) to 'melt' the wax already on the boot in relatively liberal doses... and then 'spit-polish'... luke-warm water was better than spit, btw, but both were effective.  The melted wax would fill the leather's pores and other imperfections and create a top surface of the wax that was then further smoothed by the cotton and 'spit'... the spit or lukewarm water was used as a lubricant (luke-warm to keep the wax from being so hard on the surface that it broke apart) and so that the fibers of the cotton didn't dig down into the wax and start the process of creating small grooves or valleys in the surface.

I think the "paint loses its natural oils"  stuff is pure marketing bs.  Putting a layer of something that doesn't let oxygen penetrate as fast into the paint (a polymer of some sort... lacquer is a polymer too) is simply reducing the rate of oxidation of the pigment or in the case of most cars now, the clear-coat.  In fact, the clear-coat should do 99.9999% of the protection of the pigment layer without anything else... so a wax on a clear-coat simply fills in the low points on the clear-coat surface and protects the clear-coat from oxidation at an otherwise faster rate.

When somebody develops a polymer that doesn't age by oxidation or nitrogenization,  and is still tough enough to withstand normal abraision and has high adhesive and cohesive strength, and is still transparent, let me know... the high tech business in the entire world will buy it by the trainload.

Addendum:
I forgot to mention the role of UV light on polymers (paints)... UV light is an energy source that polymers and other organic materials react with .... the reaction occurs at the ends of the tails and the UV light causes a radical to be formed (a simple radical is a collection of a few Carbon-Hydrogen atoms on a polymer, with an oxygen-hydrogen (-OH) ion tail end or some other ionic portion), and creates a highly reactive point on the remaining chain... the UV also simultaneously reacts with the surrounding oxygen forming ozone (O3).  The ozone reacts with the radical that's been broken off the main chain by the reaction with UV light energy.  This process actually "eats" the surface of the organic material ... it's used in a process called "UV Cleaning" to rid a surface of an organic contamination layer... and in stronger doses of both concentrated UV and Oxygen the rate at which this occurs is accelerated.  For example a few angstroms of most organic materials can be removed by putting the part under a high intensity UV lamp and providing a draft(to carry away the radical's broken off the exposed organic surface) for a few seconds to a minute or two... depending on the depth of th organic material and the UV intensity supplied.

The exact same process occurs at a far lower rate on the polymer's used in paints and clear-coats... therefore eating away at the surface of the polymer exposed to sunlight (UV).  A wax coating on the surface (besides giving it the shine as discussed above) is actually a sacrificial surface... letting the UV 'eat' it away while it's protecting the paint (clearcoat) surface from oxygen... the absense of which prevents the UV from forming ozone at the surface of the paint so that the radical created by the UV from the organic surface of the paint / clearcoat has nothing else to react with (the ozone is what it would normally react with), so simply re-reacts at the surface it came from in the first place.

Clearcoats are designed as best as possible to reflect UV spectum of light and not absorb & trasmit them... preventing to the degree possible the UV reaction with the pigment layer.

Paradoxically, some polymers also "harden" or "cure" after being applied by being exposed to UV light (notably acrylate based polymers), but thereafter are scavenged by the UV reaction with the surface in the presence of oxygen (ozone).  This 'curing' process is actually a similar reaction as the scavenging one... but the UV is used in this form to cause the "hardener" in the polymer to become 'free' to react with the rest of the polymer system... by the UV reacting with a radical specifically included in the "hardener" to prevent it reacting with the rest of the polymer system (in epoxies, this is called the "resin").  Once the UV hits the "harder's" radical, the radical breask off and leaves the "harder" able to react with the "resin" and "harden" or "cure".

If insufficient UV intensity or time is applied then some of the "hardener" remains unreacted with the "resin" leaving a less than "hard" polymer "paint" or "clearcoat".  Not a good thing, since the unreacted "hardener" is now also free to react with parts of the system it wasn't designed to react with, as well as oxidative reactions, hygroscopic reactions, etc. creating a material not necessarily that which was designed for the intended job.  

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
'02 SL500 Sport

WOW!
: )

[Longtooth]

Actually, I think all the rhetoric published by various "wax" and "polish" companies is a lot like women's make-up, hair conditioners, shampoo's.  

Bottom line on which to use or which is "best" or provides the "highest shine" is all pretty subjective as far as I can find on the web.  I think the $150 type prices for the "exotic" wax's advertised for a 6 oz. container is a little more than absurd, frankly.  I purchase and use far more complex chemicals that are only produced in extremely small volumes (almost prototype samples) for high tech applications in the range of $6-$10/cc (cubic cm) ... which for a 6 oz. container would come to something on the order of less than $100.  To think that a container of a mixture of natural or synthetic waxes in suspension form would cost 50% more is laughable.

The chemical purchase price of pure carnuba was is less than $2/oz ($31/lb) by one supplier.... http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/SLC2764?gclid=CIODuMK_pYgCFSb-YAodSy-QVg... and less than $0.60/oz by another (16 oz. order), or less than $0.02/oz in 25 lb orders... http://www.libertynatural.com/bulk/837.htm

This is an example of you don't always get what you pay for.

Here's a statement from a car-care company about Carnauba wax:
"Getting Acquainted with Natural Waxes

Natural wax is typically engineered from a substance called Carnauba. This wax is derived from the tropical plant called Copernica Cerifera and is as hard as a brick in its natural form. Because of the natural repellency of wax, this Brazilian plant is able to direct water flow from rainfall to its root structure. Many forms of flora have relied on natural wax to protect them from life threatening viruses, and you will find that it is equally useful in shielding your paint from contaminants. It should also be noted that natural wax is breathable: another plus for your paintjob. Companies that advertise bold statements such as ‘Contains 100% Carnauba Wax!’ are referring to the purity of the carnauba wax contained in the product, not the product as a whole. Without the addition of naphtha, petroleum distillates and other oils, this product would not be smooth enough to work its wonders on your vehicle. Therefore, the highest actual amount of carnauba in any given concoction is a delicate balance between many positive factors, and because of carnaubas natural denseness, only about 30% of it can fit workably into a product. Carnauba itself is harvested in Brazil, and different levels of purity exist. Yellow wax is reputably the highest achievable grade of wax available, and is used by the highest paying industries." http://superiorcarcare.net/which-wax-is-best.html

Now... Zymol's wax is 33% Carnauba wax selling on the web at the rate of for $5.75/oz ($46/8 oz jar). On a pro-rated basis, the carnauba content in this product costs over $16/oz!!!! or roughly on the order of 800x the bulk cost of the pure #1 Yellow Carnauba wax.... just to give some insight into how much hype's included in the price when the wax contains 'carbauba wax'.

Here's more on what's in Zymol's product though...

"- Formulated from a combination of nutritive waxes and oils, including 33% rare Brazilian no. 1 yellow carnauba wax content.
 - Zymöl Creame Wax relies on the durable nature of carnauba wax to provide stellar paint protection.
 - Contains No. 1 yellow carnauba wax (derived from palmetto), montan oil, coconut oil, banana oil, propolis (derived from bees), cetyl esters, cetyl cocoamide (derived from coconut oil) and FD&C blue #1
 - Zymöl Creame Wax is sold in a long-lasting 8oz. jar.
 - Zymöl Creame Wax is founded on a high concentration of rare yellow no. 1 Brazilian carnauba—33%, in fact. This fine carnauba, the most scarce and brilliant natural variety, works to enhance the depth of your light finish with the accompaniment of nurturing oils and esters. ...."
http://www.autoanything.com/car-care/69A3062A0A0.aspx

Now look up what's in Turtle Wax's premium product... just for comparison purposes.

Natural waxes and other synthetic waxes are all some form of a fatty acid... all simple long chained carbon-hydrogen molecules.... the longer the chain the higher the volatility and higher the melting point in general, which is why, for example, Carnuba wax is harder and more resistant to water than Beeswax.... it's a longer chained fatty acid.

They all oxidize at about the same rate, all are "eaten" .... see my prior post.... by UV incident energy at about the same rate in any practical application, so the major differences are in concentrations of which waxes are included and what the emulsifier's are.  Carnuba wax is used in larger volumes for food additives and inks than it will ever be used as an automobile surface treatment, so production of Carnuba wax from Natural sources isn't the determinate of the cost of the wax.... I'd say uninformed consumer's and marketing hype is the primary determinate of the price of a given "premium" car wax... just my opinion though.

Full disclosure... I use McGuire's high end product on my SL's... but I used Turtle wax and some synthetic's too... I can't really see much difference... some, but considering the time spent on McGuires application and the others, the difference in appearance might be discounted by spending twice as much wax and time on the cheaper varieties.  

Remember that the UV exposure will kill the wax finish anyway in about the same amount of time for any wax product containing or using carnauba wax.

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
'02 SL500 Sport

[Longtooth]

How thick is the wax protectant film applied to a car finish?

The bottom line is that the dried / polished film thickness on a properly applied wax is in the range of 3 molecules thick... or ~0.02 microns thick.  

There's a 'detailing' article that's discusses the "art" of applying wax's and sealants in various combinations some will find interesting and applicable.... for show (see link at end).  For protection of the clear coat of pigment layer though the issue is how long the film will last under the sun's UV energy.... and 2-4 molecules thick films aren't going to last very long so you'ed probably have to clean off the old wax and re-apply at least 3x if not 4x per year to retain some protective properties.
 
Following is the detail basis for this thickness:

To create a solid film of 1 micron thickness on a surface area of 1 sqr meter requires a solid volume of 0.000001 m x 1 sqr meter = 1e-6 cubic meters.

1 cubic millimeter = 0.001 m x 0.001 m x 0.001 m = 1e-3^3 = 1e-9 cubic meters.... or 1e9 cubic millimeters per cubic meter

Thus, a 1 micron thick film spread over a sqr meter requires 1e-6 cubic meters x 1e9 cubic millimeters per cubic meter =1e3 cubic millimeters

If a fluid oz of emulsified wax reduces to 0.33 x the fluid volume, then 1 fluid oz. reduces to ~0.33 fluid oz. when dry.

0.33 fluid oz. = 0.33 x 30 cubic millimeters = 10 cubic millimeters of solid volume or 1e1 cubic millimeters of solid.

Since a 1 micron thick solid film  spread over a sqr meter requires 1e3 cubic millimeters of solid, then  10 cubic millimeters (1e1) creates a film that's
only 1e1 /  1e3 = 1e-2 microns thick or 0.01 microns thick.

Thus, 1 fluid oz of emulsified wax, spreads over a sqr meter to a thickness of 1e-2 microns of solid film... or  1e-8 meters ... or 100 angstroms
(1 angstrom = 1e-10 meters).

Considering that a carbon molecule of organic chain linked material is at least 50 Angstroms thick, then the 1 fluid oz of emulsified wax will have
somewhere between 1 & 2 molecules of the solid material on a sqr meter.... on average ~1.5 molecules of protection and "depth".

In general though the recommended applications are for about 1/2 the area of a sqr meter for about an oz of wax... so the properly applied wax
may have an average of about 3 molecules of protectant in the dry form.  ... effectively ~200 angstroms or 20 nanometers or 0.02 microns thick film.

Not much for an extended protection time in UV...  but great for the very near term protection.

Here's a website that discusses "shines" and "layering" of protectants for depth of shine.

http://www.guidetodetailing.com/articles.php?articleId=36

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
'02 SL500 Sport

[mdsalemi]

Longtooth said: "I have not seen much difference"...

I'll have to agree.  If a good shine is what you are after, better start with surface prep.  Have a good paint job first; don't let it get too oxidized or rough.  I've seen some "rough" surfaces brought back to mirror finish with professional compounding products and wheels, or clay.  Certain paints are easier then others.  I have a solid color which is always easier to maintain then a metallic.  My paint job was done by someone who spent more time after the paint job in prepping the surface, and boy does it show.

Bottom line?  Many people who have seen my car at shows have remarked that it is among the best paint jobs they've ever seen.  When it is really clean, and wiped down with a micro fiber cloth, you can't tell whether or not it has any wax on it.  I had nothing to do with it.  Just paid the restorer.

I've tried many waxes and with this paint job it is hard to judge one better then the other.  It gets one wax per year, but didn't have any wax for the first 3 years, other then what was put on by the restorer.

I have used Zymol Carbon, Nano-Wax, and Meguire products.  All seem to work well, I guess.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[dreyer635]

About Autoglym product - seems lik it is a european only product.??
I use it and as Jaap said - it is easy to work with and gives a good result. However - I'm not shure you allways get what you pay for - in carwax and all otherthings - marketforce and brandnames rules.

Kjell
Norway
280Sl
bmw635Csi

[Bob G ✝︎]

Not being as much an engineer as some of those who have posted here. I agree with the research and appreciate it being brought out to be posted here on the forum. However what people not engineers want to know is what way there are to maintain that this protective coating of carnauba wax on thier prized automobiles.
Paint as we know it today is a poloymer much like plastic. On top of the coat of color is a layer of unpigmented paint that is clear and has a UV sun  screen built in to protect the base coat from fading. This is what you are polishing and cleaning not the base coat of color unless it is an orginal 1960 to 1970 paint job.
The thing about clear coats that is the top coat I was talking about is it is like wearing glasses. When they become scratched or hazed they no longer have that clear deep pool reflection. Some of you have show paint on your restored SLs and I would guess they have a better home and inviorment to sit in than you or I .
But once out side in the real world is when exposure to nature and man made pollutiion take their tool on our prized automobiles.Tree sap. bugs, trees catalic exhaust residue can combined with H2O cause a resipie for acid to form  on the top surfaces and slowly eat away at the paints coating.
That is were ones diligence comes in like changing oil or wiper blades and setting tire preasure the paint is that last thing to gain attention it is (The forgotten service)
There are many products out there to take care of automobiles paint and rubber.Frequent Hand washing with a soft mocro fiber wash mit and a PH ballance car shampoo will help keep the surface kleen. Mcofiber towels have changed and gotten bigger nad thicker they hold 7 times there weight in water and will not scratch the paint. A spray on paint revitalizer called quick detailer there are many of these can helpspeed shine the paint to a show room clear appearance.
Most owners do not use wax on there automobiles in fear of it yellowing or building up over time. That may be true in the passed but not today. Most high quality waxes are used by many restorers for Pebble Beach concours winning automobiles I call this the testing ground for the elite because the sun doesn't come out till 11:am everytime pebble beach is held and like models their paint and chrome must keep a flawless appearance inm front of the judges and on the winners circle.
A good  5 hour car wash and touch up should be applied for every time the car is out on the road. Waxing and a pure polish  unless not driven and keep out of the outside inviroment should be done every 3 months to maintain protection to the paint and chrome with soft micro fibler towels and clean cotton applicators.
for thoses intrested in my article (The forgotten service) you can optain a copy on request by emailing me at bobgeco@cs.com.
Bob Geco

[simonarn]

Proof that you should always search before posting!
So the eyes start turning skywards at the weekend, the keys to the garage remain in the pocket, and it is, of course, the second most important question.
The first being when can I start my 113 up and have a quick spin, and then, when can I spend the day with a sponge and a chamois. I noticed in earlier posts, that for Europeans the question was about Autoglym. I have Autoglym and Maguiars in the garage ready for the spring (when it finally decides to show up). I haven't yet decided which is better, but I think I will use Autoglym first as its been my favourite, and use the Maguiars later. One product that Autoglym does is the car glass polish which is truly unbeatable at removing everything from the windscreen and side windows.
For the leather, I got given as a Christmas present some Conolly Hide Leather cream and that may or not may be the best, but I feel a little more refined using it and the smell is something else.
 

[jameshoward]

The autoglym waxes are great if not hugely long lasting in hard weather, but great for cas driven in the weathers our cars experience. Make sure you use the high gloss finish after the wax, as it seals the wax and together they work superbly. I flayed my car a few years ago the used the auto glym range and it still looks great.