Author Topic: TUV Test Failed - update and progress  (Read 30136 times)

jameshoward

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2007, 12:34:31 »
Time for a short update.

Soft top: The hood needs replacing but the job is $$$ and is a way down the list of priorities. It still doesn't like to go into the soft top box without a good deal of pressure. I had cause to visit Chelsea Classics (the largest seller of Pagodas in the UK - they say about 130 or so per year, mostly 280's, they say they find it hard to shift others; they also provided the car for the excellent Pagoda clip on google.video driven by Jeremy Clarkson that someone listed on this site a few weeks ago) and had a go closing the hood on one of their 280's with a new one just fitted. Now I know how a hood should go in - i.e. very easily indeed. I remain some way from that kind of closure.

Engine: My mechanic has looked it over and declared it "OK." The points needed to be replaced and he has serviced the car. He is not an MB specialist, but rather specialises in GB cars, mostly Jags and Healeys. I disucssed using synthetic oils, but he was set against, so we're back with mineral oils - 20W/50 is what he's used, which is pretty thick! He has also put in IGK platinum plugs (he'd already done this and said that they were correct for the car - I should have said stock coppers; I'm going to leave them in as it's my fault for not specifying in detail. I know most will say keep coppers there). The timing chain and tensioners are fine; he's going to set the valves, etc and have a stab at getting the engine running less rich. We'll see how he gets on. Having tightened the fan belt adjuster at the alternator, the fan is now touching the radiator. More work needed there.

Body work: It was good to see the car on a lift for the first time. The underside is pretty good except where gallons of water sat in the drivers side foot well for God knows how long. The front and rear floor pans will be cut out and new ones welded in. This job will cost the most. Otherwise, the body work is surprisingly good. I wish I knew where the car came from in the US, as it seems well cared for by and large. The exhause has been badly fitted and we'll cut that off and re-weld, replacing the missing heat shields.

Suspension: The car failed the TUV on numerous things. (Though they didn't pick up on the kingpins needing repair!) The rear shocks need replacing; I'm going to get Koni's. (Especially after watching the blacklick video on google http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6010922069310307017) I need new engine mounts and sub frame mounts. Most of the other rubbers need to be replaced also, but these will be done in slower time. The car is down on the left (or up on the right; not a TUV test fail, so something I'll broach later). Massive thanks for JeffC280SL for his advice and files. I am thinking about replacing the springs as I met a guy who makes them and offers a good deal from the UK - he'll make a set (4) to any spec you want for a little over 200 pounds plus shipping; progressive, normal, etc anything you specify. I think that's pretty good.

Interior: I DO have to replace the seatbelts - v annoyed about that. My thanks to MDSALEMI for the 'how to fix seatbelts' file. Not looking forward to that job. The seats are better - very grateful  to 66andBlue who suggested using a stiff-ish piece of industrial grade carpet between the springs and pads to stiffen things up; that worked really well, thanks Alfred. I also fixed the clock using the excellent clock fixing posts. It really was the little piece of solder and it really was (quite) simple. (The burns on my hands from the soldering iron should be hardly visible in a few months).  

I have replaced the tubing that drains water from the firewall into the engine bay, and have re-affixed the ariel to the wing (fender). The only new problem is that the speedo doesn't seem to work.

Anyway, all in all good news. Did the daftest thing and bought the car unseen from the internet (THAT site) and may just about have got away with it to a large degree. It goes to show that it is possible to enter into Pagoda ownership without breaking the bank up front. (That, no doubt, will come later).

Finally, I would have been utterly stuffed and lost without this most excellent site and the amazingly helpful people that populate it.

I will post some pics soon - about a month or so by the time I'm ready to shoot for a re-match against the TUV meisters.

James

« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 13:04:41 by jameshoward »
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

nick350

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2007, 13:08:44 »
I wouldn't rely too much on what Chelsea cars have to say, they may well sell a lot of 113's but they are awful. I have never known a car ( and I know many ) that has been what they claimed it was and that didn't need masses of work done. The mechanical warranty they offer is limited to £500!!  
I so nearly bought one myself but upon the final inspection found it to be a rot box, not what they either claimed or tried to hide.

Try some of the others in town Silver arrows is where I got mine.
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward

Time for a short update.

Soft top: The hood needs replacing but the job is $$$ and is a way down the list of priorities. It still doesn't like to go into the soft top box with a good deal of pressure. I had cause to visit Chelsea Classics (the largest seller of Pagodas in the UK - they say about 130 or so per year, mostly 280's, they say they find it hard to shift others; they also provided the car for the excellent Pagoda clip on google.video driven by Jeremy Clarkson that someone listed on this site a few weeks ago) and had a go closing the hood on one of their 280's with a new one just fitted. Now I know how a hood should go in - i.e. very easily indeed. I remain some way from that kind of closure.

Engine: My mechanic has looked it over and declared it "OK." The points needed to be replaced and he has serviced the car. He is not an MB specialist, but rather specialises in GB cars, mostly Jags and Healeys. I disucssed using synthetic oils, but he was set against, so we're back with mineral oils - 20/50, which is pretty thick! He has also put in IGK platinum plugs (he'd already done this and said that they were correct for the car - I should have said stock coppers; I'm going to leave them in as it's my fault for not specifying in detail. I know most will say keep coppers there). The timing chain and tensioners are fine; he's going to set the valves, etc and have a stab at getting the engine running less rich. We'll see how he gets on. Having tightened the fan belt adjuster at the alternator, the fan is now touching the radiator. More work needed there.

Body work: It was good to see the car on a lift for the first time. The underside is pretty good except where gallons of water sat in the drivers side foot well for God knows how long. The front and rear floor pans will be cut out and new ones welded in. This job will cost the most. Otherwise, the body work is surprisingly good. I wish I knew where the car came from in the US, as it seems well cared for by and large. The exhause has been badly fitted and we'll cut that off and re-weld, replacing the missing heat shields.

Suspension: The car failed the TUV on numerous things. (Though they didn't pick up on the kingpins needing repair!) The rear shocks need replacing; I'm going to get Koni's. (Especially after watching the blacklick video on google http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6010922069310307017) I need new engine mounts and sub frame mounts. Most of the other rubbers need to be replaced also, but these will be done in slower time. The car is down on the left (or up on the right; not a TUV test fail, so something I'll broach later). Massive thanks for JeffC280SL for his advice and files. I am thinking about replacing the springs as I met a guy who makes them and offers a good deal from the UK - he'll make a set (4) to any spec you want for a little over 200 pounds plus shipping; progressive, normal, etc anything you specify. I think that's pretty good.

Interior: I DO have to replace the seatbelts - v annoyed about that. My thanks to MDSALEMI for the 'how to fix seatbelts' file. Not looking forward to that job. The seats are better - very grateful  to 66andBlue who suggested using a stiff-ish piece of industrial grade carpet between the springs and pads to stiffen things up; that worked really well, thanks Alfred. I also fixed the clock using the excellent clock fixing posts. It really was the little piece of solder and it really was (quite) simple. (The burns on my hands from the soldering iron should be hardly visible in a few months).  

I have replaced the tubing that drains water from the firewall into the engine bay, and have re-affixed the ariel to the wing (fender). The only new problem is that the speedo doesn't seem to work.

Anyway, all in all good news. Did the daftest thing and bought the car unseen from the internet (THAT site) and may just about have got away with it to a large degree. It goes to show that it is possible to enter into Pagoda ownership without breaking the bank up front. (That, no doubt, will come later).

Finally, I would have been utterly stuffed and lost without this most excellent site and the amazingly helpful people that populate it.

I will post some pics soon - about a month or so by the time I'm ready to shoot for a re-match against the TUV meisters.

James





Nick350
r107 SL red

paulr

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2007, 14:10:57 »
Hi James,

try this guy for your speedo, he has just refurbished one I bought and it's perfect. He also set the mileage to match my old broken one.

http://www.jdo1.co.uk/page23.html

paulr

rob walker

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2007, 01:16:32 »
Nick, I would agree, CC have a very dubious reputation,I was always very impressed by Silver Arrows, however my car came from a private source in the end.

James on the suspension side, do some searches on this site and you should get some good information on what is best for springs and shocks.
My preference having tried various options was standard rate springs, standard front shocks and adjustable Konis on the rear.
Good luck, Rob

Rob Walker
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Spain and Turkey

jameshoward

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2007, 12:42:19 »
Paulr - thanks for the speedo guy; I'll see what the problem is and if it needs to go for specialist care, I'll hoof it off to your chap.

Rob/Nick,

I have to agree with you about CC. I looked at a load of their cars; very pretty paint and nice new leather/hoods, but skin deep. Using the info gained from this site I was able to see many defects and bodges with all the cars I saw. Several were touted as being Roger Edwards rebuilds, but they didn't look that hot close up. One of the salesmen I spoke to was clueless, although I did meet the owner and he know a good amount. We had a good chat; he makes no bones about it, though, he's there to shift cars. Their pricing policy is simple, it seems to me: look at the engine size badge on the boot/trunk, insert decimal point between the middle and last digits, and stick a 'pound' sign in front. Almost to a car their 230's were 23-24K and the 280's were...28K! I certainly wouldn't have bought one of their cars at that price and in that condition. For example, 2 of the cars I looked at had engine mounts that had totally collapsed. Still, I guess at 120-140 cars a year someone is buying them.

James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

paulr

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2007, 01:10:46 »
Hi James

I have had water in my car too and fingers crossed have traced it to the seals on the wiper spigots. So each time I wash wipe the screen the water sits in that little egg cup sized indentation and seeps through to the floor. I am also having the screen rubber replaced and the door rubbers and the hardtop seals and the heater matrix done. Not, actually to sort out the water but these all are areas of water ingress. In the meantime, I used Cat litter under newspapers under the carpets , Just remember to hoover it out and used these mini crystal dehumidifiers ( http://www.airandwatercentre.com/store/SEURLF/ASP/SFS/CID.4/PID.111/SFE/productdetails.htm ). They do help.

My car also sits a liitle low on my side and I have recently bitten the bullet and am having a load of annoying things sorted out in one go as the car is basically OK. One of these, and it's the biggest is to have ALL the rear suspension rubbers replaced. I thought it was the shocks too but in my case it's not.




paulr
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 01:24:37 by paulr »

J. Huber

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2007, 09:55:14 »
Hey Paulr, any problem with cats trying to get in the car at night? Just kidding. I was looking for your post on rattles in the dash -- because, oh no!, I have the same rattle  ;) . Good luck James and Paul.

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

jameshoward

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2007, 12:12:30 »
Paul,

Can you tell me what you do to sort out the wiper spigots? Is there some relatively cheap fix, such as replacing a seal or something? (Would that it were as simple as removing the wiper arm, undoing a few nuts and changing a washer - no doubt it involves taking out the rear axel or something equally complex).

As for the water in the car, I found that my firewall drainage hoses had perished. They were original, but had become blocked, thus water ingressing thru the air scoop drained into the floor, instead of out of the engine bay. An easy fix using plastic pipeing, if not pretty.

I am also going to have a shot at replacing the rubbers on and under the springs. I've got some good info from the BBB which I was sent if you don't have it. Have you seen the Blacklick video on google that talks about suspension? It has some great info, including a part where the Tom Villers uses pipe gaskets as spacers to fine tune ride height. I've sent an e-mail to McMaster car, who make this item, to see how much they'll charge to ship the pipe gasket thingys to Europe, as I think I'm going to try them. I'll post the answer here if/when I get the response. Did you also see that I found a guy who can make a new set of springs (4) - progressive or stock; whatever you like - for about GBP200? I'm thinking about changing these when I get to the suspension and he offers good vaule. There's some great stuff on this site about getting amongst it all. Just bought my spring compressors yesterday!

More of a dog person myself, but I'd be really interested to hear your plan for the wipers!!

James
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 12:15:39 by jameshoward »
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

jameshoward

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2007, 12:20:34 »
I found this cable in behind my glove compartment. Can anyone please tell me what it is for? (My cigar lighter doesn't work - could this have something to do with it?)

James


Download Attachment: wire.jpg
77.64 KB
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

paulr

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2007, 13:55:38 »
Hi James

I took it off as it made me seem smug.

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

Hey Paulr, any problem with cats trying to get in the car at night? Just kidding. I was looking for your post on rattles in the dash -- because, oh no!, I have the same rattle  ;) . Good luck James and Paul.

James
63 230SL



paulr

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2007, 14:41:52 »
The wiper issue is being done as part of a much more involved screen out and dashboard restoration with the wiper mechanism being taken out from underneath. I imagine though that your idea is right as the rubber must be at the topside.

I live in Central London and only have a secure outside space, nowhere to tinker or do anything other than give it a good polish. So, everything is done by the brilliant Cedric ( actually Paul ) at Roger Edwards Motors. I don't really mind spending the money with them as they do a great job and they get to know everything about the car. They knew it about 10 years ago before the previous owner and I bought it. Small world.

I am having the axle rubbers done including the big one at the top. It's a £1000 job though but as they have never been done before and my rear ride height is low and lopsided it seems worth it. It isn't the springs or shocks, just rubbers. I had all the tyres changed and they have helped the ride quality a lot. I did see the video but it was a little involved for my needs. To be honest, I think it's quite easy to obsess about these things and I've spent many sleepless nights planning and spending but with respect I'm not sure that minute adjustments to ride height etc are that necessary, well for me anyway.

I'm enjoying hearing about your journey and can't wait to see the finished result.


 
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward

Paul,

Can you tell me what you do to sort out the wiper spigots? Is there some relatively cheap fix, such as replacing a seal or something? (Would that it were as simple as removing the wiper arm, undoing a few nuts and changing a washer - no doubt it involves taking out the rear axel or something equally complex).

As for the water in the car, I found that my firewall drainage hoses had perished. They were original, but had become blocked, thus water ingressing thru the air scoop drained into the floor, instead of out of the engine bay. An easy fix using plastic pipeing, if not pretty.

I am also going to have a shot at replacing the rubbers on and under the springs. I've got some good info from the BBB which I was sent if you don't have it. Have you seen the Blacklick video on google that talks about suspension? It has some great info, including a part where the Tom Villers uses pipe gaskets as spacers to fine tune ride height. I've sent an e-mail to McMaster car, who make this item, to see how much they'll charge to ship the pipe gasket thingys to Europe, as I think I'm going to try them. I'll post the answer here if/when I get the response. Did you also see that I found a guy who can make a new set of springs (4) - progressive or stock; whatever you like - for about GBP200? I'm thinking about changing these when I get to the suspension and he offers good vaule. There's some great stuff on this site about getting amongst it all. Just bought my spring compressors yesterday!

More of a dog person myself, but I'd be really interested to hear your plan for the wipers!!

James



paulr

glennard

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2007, 18:08:58 »
Radio??


quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward

I found this cable in behind my glove compartment. Can anyone please tell me what it is for? (My cigar lighter doesn't work - could this have something to do with it?)

James


Download Attachment: wire.jpg
77.64 KB


jameshoward

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2007, 01:45:05 »
Glennard, thanks for the suggestion, but no. The radio works fine without it. So does the clock and the other dash instruments, less the speedo but that's another yet to be addressed problem.

James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

Naj ✝︎

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2007, 02:53:40 »
Paul,
 
quote:
my rear ride height is low and lopsided it seems worth it


Could it be the 'heavy' wallet?  :D

naj

68 280SL
68 280SL

hands_aus

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2007, 03:33:12 »
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward

I found this cable in behind my glove compartment. Can anyone please tell me what it is for? (My cigar lighter doesn't work - could this have something to do with it?)

James


Download Attachment: wire.jpg
77.64 KB


Does your Glove box light work?

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best

jameshoward

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2007, 03:51:27 »
Bob,

It did. I haven't checked it since I took out the glove box and put it back in but the cable carrying current to the bulb connects on my car via a screw terminal and not a plug so I am pretty certain that isn't it.

I wondered if it had a/c once? Could it be for that?

James
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

glennard

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2007, 08:44:24 »
Looks like the plug in power to the original radio(Becker/Blaup-??).  Do you have a replacement radio?  One of those plug is hot, if it is still connected.  The other is ground.

quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward

Glennard, thanks for the suggestion, but no. The radio works fine without it. So does the clock and the other dash instruments, less the speedo but that's another yet to be addressed problem.




rwmastel

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2007, 22:44:58 »
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward

Did you also see that I found a guy who can make a new set of springs (4) - progressive or stock; whatever you like - for about GBP200?
James,

Hi.  I believe you have a 230SL.  Here's some factory spring info:

Front spring MB part number: 113 321 04 04
Free length of spring: 387.5 mm
Installation length of spring under 611 kp load: 253 mm (varies from +5 mm to -2 mm)
Spring travel per 100 kp of load: 21.9 mm
Wire thickness: 15.6 mm
Mean winding diameter: 110
Number of windings: 9.75

Rear spring MB part number: 113 324 04 04
Free length of spring: 289.5 mm
Installation length of spring under 500 kp load: 214 mm (varies from +9 mm to -9 mm)
Spring travel per 100 kp of load: 15.1 mm
Wire thickness: 15.8 mm
Mean winding diameter: 120
Number of windings: 5.5

I hope you can get some good ones made from this info.  This info came from the MB Technical Data Passenger Cars, Oct. 1966 Edition (reprint 1992).


Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
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paulr

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2007, 13:39:05 »
it will be much lighter once this job is through !

quote:
Originally posted by naj

Paul,
 
quote:
my rear ride height is low and lopsided it seems worth it


Could it be the 'heavy' wallet?  :D

naj

68 280SL

[:0]

paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL

paulr

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2007, 14:52:46 »

Quote
Originally posted by jameshoward

Paul,

Can you tell me what you do to sort out the wiper spigots? Is there some relatively cheap fix, such as replacing a seal or something? (Would that it were as simple as removing the wiper arm, undoing a few nuts and changing a washer - no doubt it involves taking out the rear axel or something equally complex).

As for the water in the car, I found that my firewall drainage hoses had perished. They were original, but had become blocked, thus water ingressing thru the air scoop drained into the floor, instead of out of the engine bay. An easy fix using plastic pipeing, if not pretty.

I am also going to have a shot at replacing the rubbers on and under the springs. I've got some good info from the BBB which I was sent if you don't have it. Have you seen the Blacklick video on google that talks about suspension? It has some great info, including a part where the Tom Villers uses pipe gaskets as spacers to fine tune ride height. I've sent an e-mail to McMaster car, who make this item, to see how much they'll charge to ship the pipe gasket thingys to Europe, as I think I'm going to try them. I'll post the answer here if/when I get the response. Did you also see that I found a guy who can make a new set of springs (4) - progressive or stock; whatever you like - for about GBP200? I'm thinking about changing these when I get to the suspension and he offers good vaule. There's some great stuff on this site about getting amongst it all. Just bought my spring compressors yesterday!

More of a dog person myself, but I'd be really interested to hear your plan for the wipers!!

James


« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 14:53:51 by paulr »

paulr

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2007, 14:55:29 »
.....more of a dog person myself....


Me too!

meet Belly and Molly.

Download Attachment: picture003.jpg
74.79 KB



paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL

jameshoward

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2007, 18:06:17 »
Paul,

My girls. It's tough getting them in the car. One on the back shelf who tries to eat anything that comes too close (very protective about the car) and the other in the passenger seat, or footwell depending on company.

Less importantly, tell me about your wiper solution if you have one yet. I'm also keen to sort out the water issue!



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James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

rwmastel

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2007, 20:37:27 »
quote:
Originally posted by paulr

meet Belly and Molly.

Download Attachment: picture003.jpg
74.79 KB
Paul,

Nice poochies!  Here's my wife & I with Dougan & Mackenzie.
http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/rwmastel/2006121215459_Copy%20of%20Pic%20017a.jpg

Maybe we need to start a "Pagodas & Pets" thread and not hijack this one???

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
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jameshoward

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2007, 02:55:00 »
Rodd,

Good idea! (Especially as I had a call from my welder yesterday am about to get the car back. I've some shots to post following floor panel replacement and general overhaul. We've done the engine mounts, subframe mounts, un-bent the alternator so it sits at the correct angle, etc. I'll get around to that over the next few days. Can't wait to see how the car looks).

Incidentally, for anyone that is still bothering to read this, SLS in Germany are superb. I spoke to a fellow called Herr Ahlf. His English is perfect and he gave me some sage advice on some of the parts I was ordering. For example, I ordered a new firewall pad (I don't have one at present) and he said that whilst SLS had some, he advised against buying it at present. Some people have had trouble getting it to stick properly and the layers come apart. They are designing and trialling a new one that should be much more like MB's original REPLACEMENT pad and it should be available in a few months. I'll post when it's out. He also pointed out that this is a part they make and supply to MB and most if not all other suppliers.

They still have no rear heat shields. However, at almost 200 Euros, I wouldn't be buying one. We've adapted one from a Jag or Healey (can't remember which) and that cost next to nothing.

James
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

al_lieffring

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Re: TUV Test Failed - update and progress
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2007, 08:24:33 »
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward

Rodd,

Incidentally, for anyone that is still bothering to read this, SLS in Germany are superb. I spoke to a fellow called Herr Ahlf. His English is perfect and he gave me some sage advice on some of the parts I was ordering.

James



I was pleased with the service and quality of the parts I got from SLS, but the air freght company they used (Schenker AG) to ship to the USA took 35 days to deliver the package and socked me with $389.00 in COD fees to pay US customs the $43.00 in tarrifs that were due and to deliver the package from Philedelphia to Georgia. The $200.00 shipping that I was charged by SLS only got the package from Frankfurt to Philadelphia, but it did get there overnight.

Al

66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket