Clunky shiftgate drop-in

[J. Huber]

Hello all. Lately, I have noticed a new thing. Often when I take the car from Park to 4, or any gear for that matter -- I get an initial clunk as I "drop into" gear. The RPMs also sink -- then quickly come up to normal and stabalize. The red light flickers as idle sinks but goes away. Anybody have an idea?

James
63 230SL

[ja17]

Hello James,

Check all your driveshaft connections.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[J. Huber]

Thanks Joe. Now to figure out what you mean. Is there any easy way to do this?

James
63 230SL

[ja17]

Hello James,

Looking far a simple cause first, check the bolt connections at the driveshaft/differential connection. Check the flex disc bolts and nuts for tightness, check the center carrier support for loose bolts, lastly remove the flywheel cover at the back of the oil pan at the transmission (the vertical cover), the flywheel/torque converter bolts are in here make sure they are not loose.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[bsimaz]

I would check the univeral joint.   I have had this happend to me before (other cars) and that what was causing it.


Bill Simaz
'66 230sl
Back on the Road

[J. Huber]

Ok. I will have a look. Am I basically looking at the connections shown here?
(courtesy of Miller's)

Download Attachment: yb.jpg
33.7 KB

James
63 230SL

[hands_aus]

James what is the idle revs?

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[J. Huber]

Hey Bob. I'd say the idle in park is around 8. In gear it sits at right about 750. Pulling up to a stop -- its stays steady. It is only when I have been idling in park and then move into gear that I get this annoyong thump & the dip in idle (to maybe 3-5) w/red light). It might have been doing this occaisionally for a long time --but it seemed more pronounced last time I drove.

Anyway, it appears that checking the various bolts mentioned is a job for my mechanic (i.e. with a lift?) I tried to crawl under and look -- could see a few bolts but then passed out from holding my breath...

James
63 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

James,
Also get your mech to check the drive flanges on the diff and auto box.
This one was loose and got kind of chewed up:

Download Attachment: RXB07.JPG
35.63 KB

naj

68 280SL

[J. Huber]

Thanks Naj. I have another question. Suppose I have a vacuum leak somewhere. Would this effect the idle to the point where it oscillates (if that's the word) upon being put in and out of gear?


James
63 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

quote: I have another question. Suppose I have a vacuum leak somewhere. Would this effect the idle to the point where it oscillates (if that's the word) upon being put in and out of gear?

Auto experts please help!!!  :oops:

naj

68 280SL

[hands_aus]

James
Is the CSS (constant speed solenoid) on the top of the inlet manifold working?
This operates when any gear is selected.
It is used to increase the engine speed by about 50rpm so the engine doesn't stall when in gear at idle.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[glennard]

naj, Did the M26(?)nut on the tranny shaft come loose?  Just had one on a 190E come loose(even being peened) and screw up the spline cuts on the yoke piece like the one in your pix.

quote:Originally posted by naj

James,
Also get your mech to check the drive flanges on the diff and auto box.
This one was loose and got kind of chewed up:

Download Attachment: RXB07.JPG
35.63 KB

naj

68 280SL

[J. Huber]

Bob, yesterday I spent a little time analyzing things. Here are some observations.

1. When car is put in park -- the revs sit anywhere from 850 to 1100. If I give throttle, they drop to the 850. If I step on the brake the idle increases slightly.

2. As I put car in gear -- the idle drops to 3-5 then stabalizes at 750. The CSS seems to be doing its thing -- however, the pin comes out kind of slowly. Do others know if their pin moves fast or slow?

3. My linkage appears to have play at just about every joint. Should it? Also, -- and this is key -- when I increase the throttle by hand (pushing linkage) there is a moment where idle actually goes down not up. How can that be...

So I think what is happening is: when I put car in gear, the linkage is moving to that low idle spot -- then the CSS finally catches up and settles things?? The whole thing is more dramatic because I have my foot on the brake at the same time -- thus the idle goes up as I put it in gear ( making it sort of thumpy). Does this make sense?



James
63 230SL

[George Davis]

Hi James,

this is what it sounds like to me:

The CSS is sticky, probably should react quickly.  I'd hit the operating rod with some light oil and work it back and forth.  That's probably 90% of the problem right there.

The (pardon the term) sloppy linkage could be related to the dip in idle speed that happens when you move the linkage by hand.  Likely the pump arm or throttle is moving first (instead of exactly together), which upsets the mixture momentarily and causes the idle speed to drop.  New linkage ball cups and readjustment sound like they're in order.

Not much can be done about the idle increase when you step on the brake pedal, although it should settle back down after a second or two.  If it doesn't settle down, there may be a leak in the brake booster.  You mentioned a vacuum leak earlier?

Good luck with it!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

[J. Huber]

Thanks George -- I think we may be on the right path...

I tried some grease on the CSS -- because it was all I could find -- oil might be better!

I would agree the ball cups seem worn -- ordering them very soon. Anybody done this lately -- who ya recommend? What about the bushings that large horizontal rod sits in -- can those be replaced?

I thought about the brake booster leaking -- but the idle increase is slight and when just pushing brake, it is momentary.



James
63 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

Hi, Glenn,
 

quote:naj, Did the M26(?)nut on the tranny shaft come loose? Just had one on a 190E come loose(even being peened) and screw up the spline cuts on the yoke piece like the one in your pix.

Yes, the nut was loose and the lock ring had worn out. Also, by this time, there were no threads left on the nut either.

naj

68 280SL

[Naj ✝︎]

Hi, James,
 

quote:I would agree the ball cups seem worn -- ordering them very soon. Anybody done this lately -- who ya recommend? What about the bushings that large horizontal rod sits in -- can those be replaced?

The bushes in the horizontal rod are replaceable.
Quite an easy job. I beleive Cees did a good description some while ago. You'll be surprised how much play new ones can take out.

naj

68 280SL

[J. Huber]

Thanks Naj. Well I just went searching for Cees' thread. Not sure if I found it. I did find Joe's tour which is great. Cees can you proide a link so I know I am looking at the real McCoy.

I think what I first need to know is what do I order? I figure Ray will have the parts -- so: how many Right sockets (5?), how many left(3)? and what would we call the bushings on the top.

Also -- if my linkage is very close to fine -- if I slowly change out each socket -- will it stay basically the same?

James
63 230SL

[glennard]

Naj, Did you put Loctite on the nut?  on the spline teeth?  peen the nut?

quote:Originally posted by naj

Hi, Glenn,
 

quote:naj, Did the M26(?)nut on the tranny shaft come loose? Just had one on a 190E come loose(even being peened) and screw up the spline cuts on the yoke piece like the one in your pix.

Yes, the nut was loose and the lock ring had worn out. Also, by this time, there were no threads left on the nut either.

naj

68 280SL

[hands_aus]

quote:Originally posted by J. Huber

Thanks Naj. Well I just went searching for Cees' thread. Not sure if I found it. I did find Joe's tour which is great. Cees can you proide a link so I know I am looking at the real McCoy.

I think what I first need to know is what do I order? I figure Ray will have the parts -- so: how many Right sockets (5?), how many left(3)? and what would we call the bushings on the top.

Also -- if my linkage is very close to fine -- if I slowly change out each socket -- will it stay basically the same?

James
63 230SL

Hey James,
Here is a link to the linkages adjustment
http://index.php?topic=5003

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[Naj ✝︎]

Glen,
 

quote:Naj, Did you put Loctite on the nut? on the spline teeth? peen the nut?

This flange is from a friend,s car.
A new nut was required and threads on the output shaft cleaned with a thread chaser.
Yes, loctite was used on the threads.
As you probably know, the locknut on the pagodas is only a 6ish mm deep ring with 4 slots. There is a lock ring behind it and you lock the nut by punching the lock ring rim into the 4 slots (or less).
No loctite on the splines.

naj

68 280SL

[glennard]

Naj, All I have is M26 nut tight on the yoke piece (with the spline).    Is there more?  You say a 'lock ring'?  The lock ring peens into the dimple  on the tranny tail shaft?   That sounds better than the nut on a floating yoke?  Ah, the mystery.  

quote:Originally posted by naj

Glen,
 

quote:Naj, Did you put Loctite on the nut? on the spline teeth? peen the nut?

This flange is from a friend,s car.
A new nut was required and threads on the output shaft cleaned with a thread chaser.
Yes, loctite was used on the threads.
As you probably know, the locknut on the pagodas is only a 6ish mm deep ring with 4 slots. There is a lock ring behind it and you lock the nut by punching the lock ring rim into the 4 slots (or less).
No loctite on the splines.

naj

68 280SL

[J. Huber]

Thanks again Bob. I have ordered the parts. I am sure once they arrive I'll be back for more guidance!

PS Thought I'd try my version of an Italian Tune-up -- drove the Pagoda spiritedly to work today -- may have helped!  

James
63 230SL

[J. Huber]

Hey all. Revisiting this with update/and of course new questions!

So I successfully changed 6 of my ball sockets -- the ones on the block pivot I didn't get to. I also have the two brass bushings yet to install. But I did the easy stuff first...Anyway, the new sockets seemed to tighten things up a lot. It also changed my linkage a bit but after some fiddling with the linkage rods, I have the following:

Idle in Gear at about 750, Idle in Park at about 8. Cars shifts fine and generally runs strong out on the road. Drop-in fluctuation is not bad at all. Sounds great, right? Not quite.

Well, since the changes, I am noticing a new thing -- although the RPMs stay pretty steady, the idle is a lot rougher. Lumpy? upon acceleration all seems fine but at start-up and general idle things sound and feel out of whack.

Could the changes to linkage have necessitated a need for some air/fuel mixture adjustments? Am I running rich? I removed a plug and it was kind of dry sooty black. They usually look more gray to me. These only have 400 miles on them at most. Also, I have a dwell meter -- it is saying 28. Points were set same 400 miles ago. Anybody have thoughts on this?



James
63 230SL