Adjusting points (and ignition timing)

[Naj ✝︎]

Hi, Bob,

Yes, Its an '046' Vacuum Advance from the 230 SL. Yours is probly an '051' ?

naj

68 280SL

[hands_aus]

quote:Originally posted by naj

Hi, Bob,

Yes, Its an '046' Vacuum Advance from the 230 SL. Yours is probly an '051' ?

naj

68 280SL

Hey Naj,
Thanks mate.
Yes it is the '051' now with a Pertronix in and working just great.
No need for all this adjustemnt.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[J. Huber]

Ok. A few more questions for you all (regarding lesson #2 -- Timing 101.)

I am seeing a decent looking advance timing gun at Sears -- Equus 5568? Would this strike you as a good entry leveler?

Also, once underway, am I right that there should be some marks to get to TDC already on my car somewhere. Where abouts are these?

Can somebody explain the vacuum connection to me? Is it that small white tube?

And with the VJUR distributor, I am looking for 30 BTDC at 3000 RPM right?

Again I apologize for boring many of you here -- but its new to me and kind of exciting. Maybe others are learning too!


James
63 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

James,
 

quote:Also, once underway, am I right that there should be some marks to get to TDC already on my car somewhere. Where abouts are these?

Yes, they're on the crank damper:



 

quote:Can somebody explain the vacuum connection to me? Is it that small white tube?

Yes.
Easier to disconnect from the throttle body end.

 

quote:And with the VJUR distributor, I am looking for 30 BTDC at 3000 RPM right?

Yes.
With vacuum line disconnected.

 

quote:Again I apologize for boring many of you here -- but its new to me and kind of exciting. Maybe others are learning too!

 :oops:  The reason why this site is 'here'  :oops:

naj

68 280SL

[George Des]

James,

What you want is a timing light with a xenon bulb. This will give you the bright strobe that you need to see the timing mark. I've seen several others out there that do not have this bulb and are almost useless because they simply do not put out enough light. If you are not in the car repair  business or doing tune-ups everyday, you don't need to strain yourself financially on the timing light. I have a fairly expensive one, but I've only had to use it a few times. Good,useable ones with the xenon light are available at fair prices.

George Des

[TheEngineer]

It's easy to see the timing marks on the crankshaft damper when you are laying under the front of the car & look up. You may have to clean the surface first for the marks to show up. I have taken a small paint brush and using white paint, marked the "zero" and the "30º". It's easier to see that way. You can mark it while under the car.

[J. Huber]

Again great stuff guys. Thanks.

I will look from the bottom -- I am able to see the 0/0 1/0 2/0 etc from the top but it is not marked and nowhere as colorful as Naj's. I should probably do as The Engineer suggests and paint it. Now the questions:

1. Is it TDC precisely when the pointer thing is on 0/0? I notice the rotor points to the tiny notch in the distributor at about same point. Is that all correct?

2. I also notice that unlike the picture in my manual -- my dizzy doesn't have that radius-dial thing at the bottom. Should it? And how is the dizzy loosened up to move around?

3. Back to points for a second. If I want to remove them, can anyone provide a quick spoonfeeding on this?

I figure I have until Father's Day to get knowlegdable on this timing stuff -- then I can unwrap and go do some triggerin'  





James
63 230SL

[enochbell]

James,

It is useful to understand the alignment of events:  the mark on the harmonic balancer points to "0" as the distributor rotor point to the notch on the distributor body as the notch on the cam sprocket lines up at 12:00 with its mark on the cam tower.  You now know how to get TDC #1 cylinder and also check for timing chain wear.  More than one of us has gone 180 degrees off when fooling with the distributor, but now you know how to avoid that mistake.

Best,
g

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[hands_aus]

quote:Originally posted by J. Huber

Again great stuff guys. Thanks.

I will look from the bottom -- I am able to see the 0/0 1/0 2/0 etc from the top but it is not marked and nowhere as colorful as Naj's. I should probably do as The Engineer suggests and paint it. Now the questions:

1. Is it TDC precisely when the pointer thing is on 0/0? I notice the rotor points to the tiny notch in the distributor at about same point. Is that all correct?

2. I also notice that unlike the picture in my manual -- my dizzy doesn't have that radius-dial thing at the bottom. Should it? And how is the dizzy loosened up to move around?

3. Back to points for a second. If I want to remove them, can anyone provide a quick spoonfeeding on this?

I figure I have until Father's Day to get knowlegdable on this timing stuff -- then I can unwrap and go do some triggerin'  

James
63 230SL

Hey James,
Something else you need to know...

ATDC is the numbers on the oil *bath air* filter side of the 0/0 on the damper.

and

BTDC is the numbers on the battery side of 0/0 on the damper.

Doing the timing, I cover the window in my garage and turn the light off during the day and have no problems seeing the marks.

The dizzy has a securing 5mm (I think) hex head bolt down on the RHS near the engine.


* sorry, did not mean to mislead anyone, just forgot to add those words.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[glennard]

Is this a upside-down thing about Austrailia?

[J. Huber]

quote:Originally posted by glennard

Is this a upside-down thing about Austrailia?

I sure hope so....

To be clear -- facing forward and looking down on a LHD, the numbers to the left of 0/0 are BTDC.

And Naj or others -- did you paint the pointer as well? will this help.

James
63 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

James,
 

quote:To be clear -- facing forward and looking down on a LHD, the numbers to the left of 0/0 are BTDC.

Yes.
The red line in my picture is @ 30 Btdc.

 

quote:And Naj or others -- did you paint the pointer as well? will this help.

Yes and Yes (IMHO).

 

quote:1. Is it TDC precisely when the pointer thing is on 0/0? I notice the rotor points to the tiny notch in the distributor at about same point. Is that all correct?

2. I also notice that unlike the picture in my manual -- my dizzy doesn't have that radius-dial thing at the bottom. Should it? And how is the dizzy loosened up to move around?

3. Back to points for a second. If I want to remove them, can anyone provide a quick spoonfeeding on this?

I figure I have until Father's Day to get knowlegdable on this timing stuff -- then I can unwrap and go do some triggerin'

1. Yes, 0/0 is TDC.
2. Its not important to have the radius dial thingy. Yours may have gone missing but later ones did not have one.
3. To remove, loosen the two outside nuts and pull out the open ended terminal, and remove moving contact from fulcrum pin. Then replace base contact. Replace new terminal in the same place. Be careful not to ground this wire or the retaining bolt to the body (note position of insulating fiber washers!!).

naj

68 280SL

[J. Huber]

Thanks Naj. I just had fun. Decided, before I mark things, to clean up some of the sludge on the front of the engine. Yikes. But now I can see the distributor loosening nut and generally most of what these parts should look like! But the wife won't let me in the house...

PS just marked everything -- thanks again. Be back when its time for timin'

James
63 230SL

[Ben]

quote:Hey James,
Something else you need to know...

ATDC is the numbers on the oil filter side of the 0/0 on the damper.

and

BTDC is the numbers on the battery side of 0/0 on the damper.

The oil filter and the battery are on the same side ??

Do you have a pulley with a double row of number ??

The 230SL has only one set, like Naj's picture, or am I misunderstanding things ??

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

[J. Huber]

Hey Ben. I took this to mean that maybe on RHD's the battery and oil filter are on opposite sides? Not sure. I do know that on LHDs the battery and oil filter are on the same side...

Now as for numbers: I believe Bob means that on the pulley there are marks on the BTDC side ie 0/10 0/20 0/30 etc. But there are also a few lines on the ATDC side...

Maybe Bob can confirm.

James
63 230SL

[glennard]

I repeat 10 june 07- Down under thing?  Engine rotates CW up north, down south ?    Standing in front of the car, looking down between the radiator and block, my engine rotates CW.  Rotate the engine CW to TDC.  BTDC marks are to the right i.e.  TDC, 10, then 20, then 30. ATDC are to the left, i.e. TDC, then 10, then 20, then 30.
    If I take the car below the Equator, does this change?  Please advise ASAP.   Does it reverse the firing order?  -to 426351?

[Ben]

 

 

quote:Hey Ben. I took this to mean that maybe on RHD's the battery and oil filter are on opposite sides? Not sure. I do know that on LHDs the battery and oil filter are on the same side...

Now as for numbers: I believe Bob means that on the pulley there are marks on the BTDC side ie 0/10 0/20 0/30 etc. But there are also a few lines on the ATDC side...

Maybe Bob can confirm.

James, everything is in the same place save for the servo/master cyl and the wiper motor !

I understand what Bob meant now ....ta !!  

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

[J. Huber]

So, where do I aim this thing?

Hey all. So the points have been adjusted and its time to check the timing. Through the help here, I have clearly marked the 30 BTDC on the pulley. I now have in my midst a timing light (thanks kids). Anyone have a technique they want to share?

A related question: I have finally honed in on what isn't quite right when I am driving. Acceleration is very good off the line, through the gears and at higher RPM (3000+) the car just purrs. However, I have what I'd call a "flat-spot" at about 2200 RPM in 2nd and 3rd. For a split second, I feel this lull right there then the power kicks in. A timing thing? Thanks as always...

James
63 230SL

[hands_aus]

quote:Originally posted by glennard

I repeat 10 june 07- Down under thing?  Engine rotates CW up north, down south ?    Standing in front of the car, looking down between the radiator and block, my engine rotates CW.  Rotate the engine CW to TDC.  BTDC marks are to the right i.e.  TDC, 10, then 20, then 30. ATDC are to the left, i.e. TDC, then 10, then 20, then 30.
    If I take the car below the Equator, does this change?  Please advise ASAP.   Does it reverse the firing order?  -to 426351?

Glenn,
I went back and corrected my post by adding 2 words I had not added.
The oil filter I referred to was in fact the oil bath air filter which is in the same position as the paper element air filter of the USA cars.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[Naj ✝︎]

Hello, James,
 

quote:So, where do I aim this thing?

My way:
Warm up engine.
Hook up timing light as per instructions.
Disconnect vacuum line.
Start engine and aim light at the static mark above the crank pulley (mind the fan).
Have a look at what markings you see on the crank pulley.
Rev up engine to 3000 rpm and see how close you are to the 30 degree mark (to the right of 0/0). Looking from the front, if the mark is to the right of the static pointer, you need to advance and vice versa...
Slightly loosen the distributor clamp so you can turn the distributor (Not too loose or the distributor will rise up and disconnect from its drive). CW to retard and CCW to advance. Set timing at 30 degrees and tighten up the clamp. Recheck setting. Also note setting at idle speed, and as you rev up it should advance to the max 30 degrees.
Reconnect vacuum line and take readings again.
Switch off engine and disconnect light.
Compare with 'book' values.
Test drive.
Notice any difference?

Bit summarised but you get the idea...
naj

68 280SL

[J. Huber]

Thanks Naj. I understand everything up to warm up engine...just kidding.

The part I want to be sure of is -- at the point I turn the distributor -- is the car still running? and with revs at 3000?

Thanks in "advance" -- yuk yuk...

James
63 230SL

[enochbell]

James,

Yes, you adjust the dist. with the car running.  Just keep enough tension with the retaining bolt so that it will move by hand but stay where you put it.

And please be very careful reaching over the battery to shoot the light down at the marks.  Between the wires for the dwell/tach meter and the cables for the timing light and the spinning fan and your attention focused on the marks...well, you get the picture.  Be careful.

Best,
g

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[J. Huber]

Thanks Greg. Good advice. I'll be reporting back before long...

Ok. I am back. A little bit of an adventure... First off, had a set-back when I realized my dinky tach/dwell meter only goes up to 1600 or something. Since I am alone on this -- had to have a better tach gauge. Got a digital one that goes to 10K.

Then I went for it. After realizing how much is too much to loosen the distributer, I got things kind of close. Before I started moving stuff the 3000 reading was over 40. Moved the dis. while lossening the nut -- then car wouldn't start -- was able to get it back to starting up. Here is what I finally got to with 3000 at 30 (vacuum disconnected):

at Idle (no vac) -- about 1 or 2 (barely off the 0/0 mark). No change with vacuum. Book says I need 4 to 7.

at 1500 (no vac) -- about 1. With vac -- 16. Book says thats good.

at 3000 (no vac) -- 30. With vac -- 30 but a little less steady.

at 4500 (no huevos). Too loud and fast -- I bailed out! But it appeared to stay very close to 30.

Any opinions?

And I ended up poking the timing light down between the upper radiator hose and the fuel injection lines. Securely in there, it freed up a hand and shined steadily on the pointer.



James
63 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

quote:at 3000 (no vac) -- 30. With vac -- 30 but a little less steady.

Test drive results  :?:

naj

68 280SL

[J. Huber]

Sorry Naj, was too busy drivin' to put that part in!

Well, I am very pleased. The slight exhaust rumble when coasting downhill has all but disappeared. The car accelerated just fine -- better than yesterday! If I were a betting man I'd say I passed my first test! I am curious to see if my MPG improves -- it had dropped to between 12-14 of late.

Is there anything in my numbers that are grounds for concern?

James
63 230SL