Author Topic: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?  (Read 14960 times)

Sigman

  • Full Member
  • Regular
  • **
  • USA, CA, Alameda
  • Posts: 66
    • http://www.bluecapgarage.com
Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« on: August 06, 2007, 11:37:00 »
Guys,

3 out of 4 brake calipers from my '69 280SL have stuck pistons.  Should I rebuild them or should I just replace them?  If a rebuild, where should I get a rebuild kit?  If a replacement, who's a reasonable retailer/seller and manufacturer of caliper?  

Any comments/suggestions are appreciated.

Cheers,
Michael

--------
Michael Lara
michaellara@netquad.com
1969 280SL 4-spd
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota FJ62
2003 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
Michael Lara
www.bluecapgarage.com
1969 280SL 4-spd - 717 Papyrus White w/ Blue MB-Tex (unrestored)
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota Landcruiser FJ62
2015 Tesla Model S 90D
2007 BMW F 650 GS

perry113

  • Associate Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, NY, Rensselaer
  • Posts: 672
    • http://picasaweb.google.com/peterperry911113/1970280SECoupe#
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 13:39:44 »
I would price up new replacements and compare to cost of rebuilding. I would recommend White Post in VA for rebuilding.
I would also recommend switching to silicon brake fluid while in the process.

Best of luck
Peter Perry
1965 230SL

Peter Perry
1970 911T Bahia Red
1972 911T Albert Blau
1963 220seb coupe barn
1965 230SL Light Ivory automatic
1966 230SL Havana Brown 4 speed Barn Find
1970 280SE living 3.5 donor car

Sigman

  • Full Member
  • Regular
  • **
  • USA, CA, Alameda
  • Posts: 66
    • http://www.bluecapgarage.com
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 14:13:01 »
Ok... if the costs of replacement and rebuilding are insignificant, what would you do?

Cheers,
Michael

--------
Michael Lara
michaellara@netquad.com
1969 280SL 4-spd
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota FJ62
2003 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
Michael Lara
www.bluecapgarage.com
1969 280SL 4-spd - 717 Papyrus White w/ Blue MB-Tex (unrestored)
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota Landcruiser FJ62
2015 Tesla Model S 90D
2007 BMW F 650 GS

jeffc280sl

  • Guest
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 15:14:02 »
Rebuilt calipers are available at rockauto.com for $50 to $70 each.  The rebuild kit costs around $20.  Snapping the new rubber bellows in place is a pain if you decide to rebuilt.  You will need to make a special fixture to get it on properly.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

merrill

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 1369
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 15:18:59 »
I asked gernold at sl tech this exact question.  he said to go with new calipers.

Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7045
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2007, 15:50:06 »
Hi Mike,

When my car was restored I faced the same question.  At the time, the cost of a new caliper on exchange was about $160 each (ATE).  My local foreign auto parts store sent them out to some unnamed professional rebuilder, and they were done for $40 each.  That's a big difference--25% of the cost of new.  I'm sure prices have adjusted since 1999.

My restorer had issues with White Post on some older cars and did not recommend them, but that was his personal preference.

Eight years later, the brake calipers have performed just fine.  I can't complain for what I got.  Rebuilts work fine if they are rebuildable.

Keep in mind that my fluid is changed every year without exception.

One thing that someone noticed at Blacklick was how clean my brake fluid was and how many cars had dirty brake fluid.  I simply commented that I change it at the beginning of each season.  I would hope everyone does!

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Sigman

  • Full Member
  • Regular
  • **
  • USA, CA, Alameda
  • Posts: 66
    • http://www.bluecapgarage.com
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 17:41:08 »
Thanks, Michael.

I'll check with my mechanic on how much he charges on a caliper rebuild.  I am mulling over doing them myself. Today's labor rates are fairly high, esp. in California.  I think recall my mechanic's rate as $110/hour.  I just printed out the brakes section of the 280SL repair manual.  Has anyone done any rebuilds on their own?  Experiences?  

I'll price out replacements as well.  Anyone know of any good aftermarket calipers?  Am I better off with OEMs?

Cheers,
Michael

--------
Michael Lara
mike@mikelarasgarage.com
1969 280SL 4-spd
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota FJ62
2003 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 17:45:06 by Sigman »
Michael Lara
www.bluecapgarage.com
1969 280SL 4-spd - 717 Papyrus White w/ Blue MB-Tex (unrestored)
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota Landcruiser FJ62
2015 Tesla Model S 90D
2007 BMW F 650 GS

Naj ✝︎

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, Surrey, New Malden
  • Posts: 3163
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2007, 01:22:06 »
quote:
Originally posted by Sigman

Guys,

3 out of 4 brake calipers from my '69 280SL have stuck pistons.  Should I rebuild them or should I just replace them?  If a rebuild, where should I get a rebuild kit?  If a replacement, who's a reasonable retailer/seller and manufacturer of caliper?  

Any comments/suggestions are appreciated.

Cheers,
Michael

--------
Michael Lara
michaellara@netquad.com
1969 280SL 4-spd
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota FJ62
2003 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro



Michael,

check this out:

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/products/products.php?year=1969&make_text=mercedes_benz&model_text=280sl&category=brake&subcategory=brake_caliper

naj

68 280SL
68 280SL

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7045
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2007, 05:57:39 »
Michael,

With all due respect to the great mechanics out there, regardless of how much they charge for labor, I'd make a few calls first to the local foreign auto parts stores in your area, and see if they send them out.  IMHO, that's the way to go.  If your mechanic is charging $110 an hour for labor, I don't think you could rebuild the calipers you have for less then replacements.

Why a brake rebuilder?  A firm that rebuilds brake calipers usually does that as a specialty, thus has all the proper tools and experience to do it well; do it fast and efficiently, too.  They generally follow a procedure and your brakes will come back not only performing well, but looking good too.

If you want to do the work yourself--meaning removing the calipers and sending them out yourself, you can try the following places:

http://www.goldlinebrakes.com/index.html
http://www.brakewarehouse.com/remanufactured_brake_calipers.asp
http://www.whitepost.com/

Remember the White Post folks specialize in sleeving in stainless steel, so this alters your brake caliper forever--but it might make it last forever as well.

When mine were done, no finish was applied to the raw casting--it came backing looking like new raw cast iron--and rusted very quickly on the car.  Today, you can probably have any color you want (if that floats your boat)but if you want to be more appropriate, a clear satin powder coat on the casting will keep the caliper looking good w/o rust for a very long time.  I have to rub mine with manifold dressing http://www.calyxmanifold.com/ which "restores" the color and keeps the rust off the caliper casting.

Hope it all works out.  You can't run a car with stuck brakes!

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 06:12:05 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

J. Huber

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Cedar Ridge
  • Posts: 3061
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2007, 09:35:01 »
I think Michael (Salemi) is probably right that having specialists do it best -- and in fact, many times mechanics know this and send things out themselves. They do the install but the rebuilds often get outsourced -- you pay a set price without ever seeing the "hours" it took. My guy has done this for several things (alternator, fuel tank, radiator recore, turning drums, etc).

And Michael L, I'd ask your guy straight-up what it will cost, and whether he sends it out or not. Just curious -- is this an independent or a MB Dealer? 110 seems a little high even for NorCal... or am I just lucky at 75.



James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

Sigman

  • Full Member
  • Regular
  • **
  • USA, CA, Alameda
  • Posts: 66
    • http://www.bluecapgarage.com
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 11:35:37 »
Thanks Michael and James.

My guy is an independent dealer who only services german cars.  From my dealings with him, he seems to be reasonable and very straightforward.  He has a 300SL with original 56 plates in his floor.  I may be mistaken for his rate but it may be $90/hr.  James, you have a good deal at $75.  I believe does all work over in his shop.  He's the one who inspected my 280SL and actually showed me the frozen calipers. The previous owner had the car sitting in his garage for a very long period. So, the frozen calipers made sense.

Thanks for the links.  I will check them out.  Sending it out to a specialist may be the best thing to do.  Hmm... Maybe I'll do one caliper rebuild myself because it will be an excellent learning experience and send the others out.

Michael, my goal is to make my car look like yours  :) . So, I need the calipers to look more appropriate. I am still drooling looking at the photos of your engine bay.  I'm still doing some edits in Photoshop.

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers,
Michael

--------
Michael Lara
mike@mikelarasgarage.com
1969 280SL 4-spd
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota FJ62
2003 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
Michael Lara
www.bluecapgarage.com
1969 280SL 4-spd - 717 Papyrus White w/ Blue MB-Tex (unrestored)
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota Landcruiser FJ62
2015 Tesla Model S 90D
2007 BMW F 650 GS

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7045
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2007, 12:06:19 »
Michael--

Thanks for the compliments!

The NEXT time my calipers get rebuilt, they will be powder coated with satin clear--that is a nearly invisible finish almost indetectable.  And, it will keep the rust away.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

jameshoward

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United States, New Jersey (formerly of London)
  • Posts: 1570
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2007, 03:53:48 »
Sigman,

As part of stripping down my car, which has drums at the rear, I found a front caliper was stuck. The process of digging out the old pads and lots of brake cleaner freed it up nicely. I don't think you need a specialist to rebuild these calipers if their prices are high. Things don't get much more simple - at least assuming your 280 calipers are similar to my 230 ones. Have a go yourself would be my advice. Note though that I'm not seeking perfection, as my car is a clean daily driver (or will be one day) with (one day) sound mechanics.

Totally agree with Michael S on brake fuild. I wasn't sure when mine was last changed when I got the car, so dediced to change all the brake lines and the flex hoses to all wheels. It was about a 12 hours job - the main pain being bending all the hoses to the correct shape - but it made an enormous difference to the braking.

Finally, if you haven't already got one, you might like to invest in a power bleeder. Lots of reasons why can be found using the search function!

Good luck.

JH
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

hands_aus

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Australia, Queensland, Brisbane
  • Posts: 1543
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2007, 04:28:00 »
quote:
Originally posted by Sigman

He's the one who inspected my 280SL and actually showed me the frozen calipers.


Hey Michael,

Are you sure the calipers are frozen?

After sitting for a prolonged time, the hoses are known to swell on the inside blocking the fluid from returning, effectively clamping the calipers 'ON'.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best

graphic66

  • Guest
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2007, 06:59:04 »
If you open the bleeder and they let go, the hoses are probably the culprit. Heres a link to a homemade bleeder http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm  I use mine all the time, it is a great tool and fun to build. And best of all it only takes pocket change to make.

Sigman

  • Full Member
  • Regular
  • **
  • USA, CA, Alameda
  • Posts: 66
    • http://www.bluecapgarage.com
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2007, 10:51:36 »
Thanks Bob, James and graphic

I'll check on the hoses as well.  My mechaninc didn't exactly show me the frozen calipers.  He just tried to spin the wheels and because it was hard to spin, he said the pistons were more likely frozen and need repair.

Cheers,
Michael
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 16:16:52 by Peter van Es »
Michael Lara
www.bluecapgarage.com
1969 280SL 4-spd - 717 Papyrus White w/ Blue MB-Tex (unrestored)
1986 560SL
1989 Toyota Landcruiser FJ62
2015 Tesla Model S 90D
2007 BMW F 650 GS

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7045
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2007, 05:56:02 »
IMHO, changing the brake hoses on a car you know little about (like how old these original hoses are...) and one that is giving some element of brake trouble should be de rigueur.  Rubber simply doesn't last forever.

The power bleeders out there--home-made or professional--allow you to also flush the steel lines.  You simply keep pumping fluid through the system until it runs clean.  If you are overhauling the brakes you want those lines clean.

It's entirely possible that if the brake fluid were old, (not changed regularly) it has absorbed moisture over the years and the brake lines will be corroding (rusty) from the inside out.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 16:17:05 by Peter van Es »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

tomaco1

  • Guest
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2009, 02:26:59 »
I found a site that had both the ATE calipers and a company called A1 Cardone, is it safe to assume that the A1 Cardones which are about $180 cheaper each, are junk?
Thanks

RickM

  • Guest
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2009, 15:56:07 »

When mine were done, no finish was applied to the raw casting--it came backing looking like new raw cast iron--and rusted very quickly on the car.  Today, you can probably have any color you want (if that floats your boat)but if you want to be more appropriate, a clear satin powder coat on the casting will keep the caliper looking good w/o rust for a very long time.  I have to rub mine with manifold dressing http://www.calyxmanifold.com/ which "restores" the color and keeps the rust off the caliper casting.



Michael:

 An alternative to continuously cleaning and dressing the caliper is to finish with VHT Hi-Temp caliper clear. This product performs very well and is best baked onto the metal it is coating. I would coat, let dry (but not cure) and make a long run to bring the calipers to temp. This will effectively bake the finish onto the calipers. 

http://www.vhtpaint.com/caliperpaint.html

Curing Caliper Paint

VHT Caliper Paint only attains its unique properties after correct curing.

    * Bake at 200°F (93°C) for 20 minutes.
    * The inherent heat of braking operation will also accomplish curing.


....Just thinking out loud here......

glenn

  • Guest
Re: Brake Caliper Rebuild or Replace?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2009, 17:06:33 »
As has been said above- make sure the brake hose is not plugged.  Walt Klatt's pix of the drains on the Pagoda calipers 'facilitates' the process.  God love em!!  POs.