Super low mile Pagoda

[cascadia]

RM will be auctioning off Bernie Ecclestone's '66 230SL with only 113 miles!  It's thought to be the lowest mileage W113 in the world.  The auction is October 31st in London, here's the link to the RM page, you will need to enter in the search term 'mercedes' in the box to find the car, it should come up as the first in the list.

http://www.rmauctions.com/Carlist.cfm?SaleCode=LF07&start=1&Category=Cars&SortBy=RO&View=Normal#

Bob in Portland

[Douglas]

A gorgeous (and really practical!) car. :-)

 I remember this pristine Pagoda from the Wichard Collection on Long Island from a few years back. It always struck me as odd how the late-model bumper guards were added — and it looks like there's no gasket sandwiched between the guards and the bumpers themselves.

Why would someone add bumper guards a few years later to a car that's clearly never driven?

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

A gorgeous (and really practical!) car. :-)

 I remember this pristine Pagoda from the Wichard Collection on Long Island from a few years back. It always struck me as odd how the late-model bumper guards were added — and it looks like there's no gasket sandwiched between the guards and the bumpers themselves.

Why would someone add bumper guards a few years later to a car that's clearly never driven?

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

...arguably, less an important question as to why would someone buy this car and never drive it?  Unless of course it really has been driven...I've had new cars delivered with more miles on them than 113.  Hmmm...W113?  113 Miles?  Sounds fishy to me.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

[cascadia]

Didn't want to get picky but I also noticed the wiper blade arms are replacements, and not chromed either.  I'd love to see some more pictures of it, especially the undercarriage.
Bob in Portland

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by mdsalemi

 Hmmm...W113?  113 Miles?  Sounds fishy to me.

Well, it is Bernie Ecclestone who wants to sell his car. I have forgotten where I read the comment but someone claimed that he was the reincarnation of P.T. Barnum - you know, the one who liked suckers.  

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[Douglas]

quote:Hmmm...W113?  113 Miles?  Sounds fishy to me.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

Damn, you're good, Michael. You got me thinking about the mileage when it was auctioned a few years ago and how I remember it was low, but not that low:

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/Profiles/2002/1/German

Nice catch. Someone should notify the auction house. This is a real no-no.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[cascadia]

But a different car, no?  Different chassis #s.  I want to believe!  

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/auctions/index.php?ID=23288

[mdsalemi]

Thanks for the compliments, guys.

I do not drive my car that much.  Since I received it back from restoration (early 2001), I've taken it to Blacklick 3x, to 3 national MBCA events, and some local events, in addition to just plain old nice drives when the weather permits.  It gets the proverbial "occasional use", and I might say, very occasional use.  Yet, despite this judcious use on dry pavement between April 1 and November 15, from 2001 until now, I have put over 10,000 miles on it, or about 1,500 per year.

Assume for a moment, that this or any other low mileage car got half that annual use, and only every other year.  That would make a 1971 version have 27,000 miles on it.  That amount of low mileage is bordering on dangerous in terms of having a potential Pandora's box of trouble just waiting to happen.

To a word, EVERY restorer or restoration house I spoke with--Bruce Adams, Paul Russel, Hatch & Sons (and others who are now forgotten)--prior to my engaging the restorer asked the same, identical question and offered the same observation:

1)  Question was [referring to the car], "It hasn't been sitting too long, has it?" followed by...

2)  The observation, "These cars don't do too well when they are not used".

Summing up, if I were in the market for a W113, unless I was never going to drive it, I'd be much happier with a well maintained and used car with 50,000 original miles (even that is low) versus some "bubble car" with 113 miles on it.

But there is one born every minute...

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

[al_lieffring]

There was a recent thread posted asking about the importance of the documentation provided with the sale of a car.
I think that the more outrageous the claims the seller is making, the more documentation that needs to be provided.

In this case it would need be receipts for 50 oil changes each with 3 miles more than the previous one.

I could pick the car apart point by point, example; all the Turtle Wax in the world wouldn't keep the original alkalyd enamel finish from oxidizing down to the primer, But It is no doubt about as nice a 230sl that you will ever find. but 113 miles, really? It only takes about 45mins to change the mileage on an odometer to anywhere you would want it.

Al Lieffring
66 230Sl
New blue top just arrived
new gas tank on order

[cascadia]

To look at this car as something that could actually be driven is missing the point, doing so would surely be a lead to many mechanical problems before long.  I see this more as a objet d'art, something to pore over and admire.  Every now and then I see cars like this, cars that were put away either for investment or obsession and never driven.  They usually go from collector to collector, serving as curiosity objects until the owner tires of their uselessness.  I'll be interested to see the auction result on this one, as well as who buys it.  If the miles are real it should get picked up by the Classic Center.

[TheEngineer]

These cars really need to be used! When I bought my car quite a few years ago, the transmission would shift really rough from 2nd to 3rd. It was only after the transmission had warmed up after driving it a few miles. And the tires had flat spots from sitting. Now the flat spots are gone and the transmission shifts oh - soo smooth! The driver's side window still sticks a little when I crank it all the way down. IMHO the worst thing you can do, is not to use a vehicle or a muscle. (Is that a muscle?)

'69 280SL,Signal Red,Automatic,retired engineer, West-Seattle,WA

[Douglas]

In August of 2001, it had 31,068 miles on it and today it has just 113 miles.

So it's pretty clear that this car was driven—backwards!

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[hill]

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

In August of 2001, it had 31,068 miles on it and today it has just 113 miles.

So it's pretty clear that this car was driven—backwards!

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

So much for Due diligence.

Happy Benzing
Darryl, Hill
350 SL4.5 #60
1967 250sl "California"

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

In August of 2001, it had 31,068 miles on it and today it has just 113 miles.

So it's pretty clear that this car was driven—backwards!

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

Just a bit of VDO minutia here,
There is actually a ratchet mechanism in the odometer wheels that only permits a maximum of one mile to be subtracted by turning the speedo input shaft backwards.

Al Lieffring
66 230Sl
New blue top just arrived
new gas tank on order

[cascadia]

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

In August of 2001, it had 31,068 miles on it and today it has just 113 miles.

So it's pretty clear that this car was driven—backwards!

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

I don't think we're talking about the same car though.  The RM car is a 66 with a manual transmission and a different chassis number.  The car you're referring to from the 2001 Pebble Beach auction is a beige-gray 67 with an automatic.

Bob in Portland

[Douglas]

Bob,

I'm unable to access the VINs for the cars. Can you post them, please?

I suppose it's possible that the Wichard Collection had more than one 230 SL, but I wasn't aware of that.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[cascadia]

The 2001 Pebble auction car is 113.042.12.019462
The upcoming RM auction car is  113.042.10.013300

Bob in Portland

[Douglas]

Okay, I guess the Wichard collection must have had two different 230 SLs. I put in a call to Christie's to see what they can tell me, so I'll post any further info I learn. They're the ones who auctioned off the Wichard car(s) back in 2001.

About the 113 miles.... I would be careful driving it. Just one more mile and it's bound to turn into a W114 sedan.   :-)

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[bluedipper]

Maybe this car just has a new speedometer.

Chuck

[Naj ✝︎]

quote:Originally posted by cascadia

The 2001 Pebble auction car is 113.042.12.019462
The upcoming RM auction car is  113.042.10.013300

Bob in Portland

That chassis # should read 113.042.10.011300 should it not?  

naj

68 280SL

[cascadia]

Now THAT would be fitting, eh?

[cascadia]

The RM auction was today in London, this car sold for 60,000 GBP or US 124,000!  Add to that at tidy 13% buyer's fee that goes to RM.  I'd think this has to be a record for a non-Mechatronik Pagoda.
Bob in Portland

[gilles82]

Hi all, here we can find the result, the Pagoda has been sold for       £67.050, plus 10% TOT £73.755, or 153.500 $ [:0]

http://www.rmauctions.com/AuctionResults.cfm?SaleCode=LF07

PS: The 1937 Mercedes-Benz 540K Special Roadster has been SOLD for £ 3.967.125, + 10% TOT 9.082.700 $ [:0]  



Ciao  

www.stellecadenti.com

[peterm]

Looking at the rm list that is an impressive number of very expensive cars.  Are these just rotating around a group of very wealthy investors?  Thats an awful lot of money for a wide array of cars, are there that many people with large amounts of discretionary cash who can buy these un-usable cars?  Admittedly having a pagoda that rarely gets used is a luxury, but to have, maintain, and service a litany of these cars requires not only space but staff etc.  I would guess the new owner of the 113 113 won't be posting on this board looking for a way to turn off the car when his brake fluid is low.