Author Topic: ALLOY WHEELS (Read 41423 times)

mdsalemi · « **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2007, 16:34:20 »

quote:
Originally posted by hill

I just located four stamped alloys they want $150.. Good price?

Happy Benzing
Darryl, Hill
350 SL4.5 #60
1967 250sl "California"

Darryl and any others interested...

If the wheels you have located are the 5.5" variety, a set of 4 in good condition is most definitely a good deal at $150. If they are the 6" version, it's a steal.

Things to look out for, for all those who might be looking for a set of these pressed alloy wheels.

1) Dents--these are very easy to dent, particularly when mounted on an extra heavy diesel sedan from whence they came, when it hits a curb.

2) Corrosion. Yes, aluminum corrodes, particularly from salt and road junk allowed to crust up. You'll see, after all is cleaned, that the wheels will look just like they rusted albeit without the rust color, but you see the pitting and corrosion.

3) Search for Jim Viller's posts on the subject, but they came in two varieties--5.5" and 6.0". From my searching, for every one of the 6 inch you'll find, you'll come across dozens of the 5.5's. Took me 2 years to come up with a set.

4) Unless you are running really wide tires, satisfice if you can find a nice set of 5.5's

5) Part number for the 6" wheels is 1234001502; they are from the W123 cars. If the original powder coat is intact, there is a solid silver stripe around the entire raised portion of the rim around the bolt holes. The 5.5's have a dashed silver line; that's how you tell them apart if you are searching in a mountain of old wheels (been there and done that!) Part number of the 5.5's is 1234001801. Not positive on this last number.

6) It should go without saying that the metal is soft. If you are having them professionally refinished, they'll need to be hand stripped as sand or bead blasting will obliterate the markings and also add a texture to the surface. I had mine refinished in the satin powder coat and they hand stripped them--all markings are intact and the finish is beautiful. (I learned a lesson on the the first set of two I found, now in the hands of Ray Hays...)

Good luck to all who are seeking...

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

Ben · « **Reply #26 on:** November 06, 2007, 06:50:45 »

I have both, I use the originals for showing the car !

BYW the early steel 230SL rims weigh a ton !!!

Alloys are considerably lighter !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

Peter van Es · « **Reply #27 on:** November 06, 2007, 10:39:00 »

I've searched this forum high and low, and am now confused on the definitive answer on Fuchs (Barock or Bundtcake) alloys.

In Germany the following sizes are regularly for sale on ebay:

Code: [Select]

6 x 14"
6.5 x 14"
7 x 15"

I know the 6x14 are original for our cars. However, I've read different opinions as to whether the 6.5 and 7 inch versions fit.

Is there anyone that can help me out on this?

Peter

Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php). Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280SL.

jeffc280sl · « **Reply #28 on:** November 06, 2007, 15:16:08 »

When considering different rims and tires we must consider many factors. Width considerations involve the potential impact of changing from 6" to 7" rims and any offset changes. A 1" rim width increase adds 12.7mm the the inside and outside rim width when measured from the centerline. I believe out the SL standard 14x6 rim has a 30mm offset. If a new rim has the same offset 1/2 the increase will be added to the inside and outside of the rim when compared to stock. I think the offset of the 15x7 Barock wheel is 23mm. This rim will add 20mm or about 3/4" to the outside and the inside will be 6mm or 1/4" less to the inside with when compared to the stock wheel.

Here is a pic of where to measure the offset.

Download Attachment:

offset.jpg
61.51 KB

Here is a website that sells spacers to compensate for offset differences.
http://www.optionimports.com/h-r-spacer-benz.html

This is nice and tidy but doesn't answer Peter's question. I suppose one way to figure this out is to install new tires and rims. An alternate is to use a mockup of the rim including correct offset with a tire sample.

I hope someone can assist with some actual field data.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

Peter van Es · « **Reply #29 on:** November 07, 2007, 02:00:05 »

I was hoping someone might already have one of these rims on their car... the simple reason is that the 7"and 6.5" varieties are more common and hence cheaper

.

Anyone, please?

Peter

Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php). Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280SL.

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #30 on:** November 07, 2007, 12:41:30 »

quote:
Originally posted by vanesp

I was hoping someone might already have one of these rims on their car... the simple reason is that the 7"and 6.5" varieties are more common and hence cheaper .

Anyone, please?

Peter

Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php). Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280SL.

This any good? Its a 6.5x14 out of a W116. In my view, they look a lot nicer than the 6x14 wheels (from W123s)
I had them on my 230SL. Excuse the mess, picture taken just after it came out of the paint oven.

Download Attachment:

Alloy6x14.jpg
68.55 KB

Or you could make the car a bit more long legged with 185VR15 tires on to 7x15 wheels a la Bohringer:

Download Attachment:

Slazburg05 0253.jpg
45.75 KB

naj

ctaylor738 · « **Reply #31 on:** November 07, 2007, 13:39:53 »

If you are going to seriously compete in concours and need to drive the car to the events, go with the wheel covers. You cannot drive more than five feet with alloy wheels and not get chips in the clear coat. If you do anything to clean up the lug bolts you get dinged for authenticity. If you don't, you get nailed for cleanliness or condition. If you change tires, you will never get the marks from the old wheel weights to not show. It is also very hard to duplicate the factory finish if you refinish them.

I had alloys on my garage queen 1984 280SL, and I liked the look. But one change I was planning was to find a perfect set of steel rims and wheel covers so as to quit losing 1/2 to 1 point consistently in events.

Chuck Taylor
1970 280SL #14076
Falls Church VA

rogerh113 · « **Reply #32 on:** November 07, 2007, 20:21:15 »

Just a couple of observations, since I have been running alloys for a while on my '66. Adhesive weights were used on the inside of my wheels (several years ago) and are still adhered and working well - not sure why external clip-on weights would be used since they damage the rims (as mentioned) and detract from the rims appearance (unless you desire the retro look, which is OK I guess). Also, not sure if you can tell a 14x6 from a 14x6.5 from a front on shot - I think the second figure is for wheel width, which might be hard to see from the face. My driving impression is that the 14x6 alloy is a huge improvement over the standard steel 14x6 steel wheel (maybe the 14x6.5 with a fatter tire is even better). If you like the driving experience of the car, I suggest you try a drive on alloys - you might be surprised!!

Regards -- Roger

ctaylor738 · « **Reply #33 on:** November 08, 2007, 07:43:35 »

Well, the problem with the weights is that you can have really nice original wheels with the external weights and need new tires. Or, my problem on the 280SL, where the 21 year old tires had to be replaced because the sidewalls were deteriorated. Then even if you use the adhesive weights on the inside, you are still stuck with the marks. Even if you find show quality wheels like "never down" spares, you still have this problem.

Like I said, this is only an issue with the q-tip concours crowd where you can't afford to give up points on something like wheels.

Chuck Taylor
1970 280SL #14076
Falls Church VA

jeffc280sl · « **Reply #34 on:** November 08, 2007, 10:01:46 »

If I were to consider alloy wheels I would like to go with the 15" version. From what I have been able to determine 7Jx15H2 (ET23 or ET25 not sure which) Barock or Bundt Cake design alloy rims were available on the W126-034,035,036 and 037. These were S class cars delivered everywhere but the US from 1986 to 1991. An after market version of these rims can be found on ebay. Is anyone using rims from these cars or after market rims in the same size? What tires are you using and did you require wheel spacers? What size?

Thank you

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

RBYCC · « **Reply #35 on:** November 08, 2007, 15:37:49 »

Just took the tires off of the five alloys I bought on Ebay for $41.00 total.

Measured at 7" and stamped ET30.

Any experience with this size on a 280SL?

Tires 205/70-14

??

Thanks !

ED A.
1971 280SL
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO
1990 C43 AMG
2003 G55 AMG

jeffc280sl · « **Reply #36 on:** November 08, 2007, 16:19:43 »

Ed,

Where are you measuring the rim witdh? Here is a pic of where to take the measurement.

Download Attachment:

rim width.jpg
15.31 KB

The rims on my car are the standard 6J14H. Offset for the standard rim is ET30, same as the rims you purchased. You may find your rims are 6 or 6 1/2 inches wide when measured in the right location. If they are 6 1/2 you will have 1/4" additional rim width on the inside and outside edge over the standard. I've had 205/70R14 tires on them for 10 years with no issues.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

RBYCC · « **Reply #37 on:** November 08, 2007, 16:41:58 »

quote:
Originally posted by jeffc280sl

Ed,

Where are you measuring the rim witdh? Here is a pic of where to take the measurement.

Download Attachment: rim width.jpg
15.31 KB

The rims on my car are the standard 6J14H. Offset for the standard rim is ET30, same as the rims you purchased. You may find your rims are 6 or 6 1/2 inches wide when measured in the right location. If they are 6 1/2 you will have 1/4" additional rim width on the inside and outside edge over the standard. I've had 205/70R14 tires on them for 10 years with no issues.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

Jeff

Thanks !!!

You are so correct.
I measured from the face of the wheel flange.
They are 6".
Cleaned off some brake dust and they are an early W126 wheel.
P/N 1264001802? or 1502? hard to read.
Also marked 6J14H ET30.

Still should fit ?

ED A.
1971 280SL
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO
1990 C43 AMG
2003 G55 AMG

jeffc280sl · « **Reply #38 on:** November 08, 2007, 17:01:19 »

The 1802 number did not work in the EPC parts system. The 1264001502 does work and indicates the rims were sold on 380SEC and 500SEC in Europe and Japan. The EPC system does not show a bundt aluminum wheel in the parts picture for this number. Don't know what that means. It also says this number was replaced by 1264000702 which shows delivery on W107-024,044 in the US. These were the 450SL and 450SLC.

As far as working on your car I can't see why not. They are the same size as the rims that came with your car from the factory. Sounds like a good buy was made on ebay.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

RBYCC · « **Reply #39 on:** November 08, 2007, 22:27:42 »

quote:
Originally posted by jeffc280sl

The 1802 number did not work in the EPC parts system. The 1264001502 does work and indicates the rims were sold on 380SEC and 500SEC in Europe and Japan. The EPC system does not show a bundt aluminum wheel in the parts picture for this number. Don't know what that means. It also says this number was replaced by 1264000702 which shows delivery on W107-024,044 in the US. These were the 450SL and 450SLC.

As far as working on your car I can't see why not. They are the same size as the rims that came with your car from the factory. Sounds like a good buy was made on ebay.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

Jeff

Thanks again....
I'll start cleaning them up and decide if I want to paint or powder coat.
They seem to be straight with no rim rash or damage, but the finish is worn.

ED A.
1971 280SL
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO
1990 C43 AMG
2003 G55 AMG

RBYCC · « **Reply #40 on:** November 08, 2007, 23:43:32 »

quote:
Originally posted by jeffc280sl

The 1802 number did not work in the EPC parts system. The 1264001502 does work and indicates the rims were sold on 380SEC and 500SEC in Europe and Japan. The EPC system does not show a bundt aluminum wheel in the parts picture for this number. Don't know what that means. It also says this number was replaced by 1264000702 which shows delivery on W107-024,044 in the US. These were the 450SL and 450SLC.

As far as working on your car I can't see why not. They are the same size as the rims that came with your car from the factory. Sounds like a good buy was made on ebay.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

Jeff

Can you confirm the lug bolt length?
12MM x 1.5 size
63MM overall length???
39MM thread length

?

Thanks in advance

ED A.
1971 280SL
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO
1990 C43 AMG
2003 G55 AMG

jeffc280sl · « **Reply #41 on:** November 09, 2007, 06:32:10 »

Ed,

Sorry, I don't have any info on the lug bolts.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #42 on:** November 10, 2007, 06:31:31 »

quote:
Can you confirm the lug bolt length?
12MM x 1.5 size
63MM overall length???
39MM thread length ?

Alloy wheel lug bolt:
Overall 50mm
Shank: 28mm

Steel wheel bolt
Overall 40mm
Shank 20mm

naj

68 280SL

RBYCC · « **Reply #43 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:20:03 »

quote:
Originally posted by naj

quote:
Can you confirm the lug bolt length?
12MM x 1.5 size
63MM overall length???
39MM thread length ?

Alloy wheel lug bolt:
Overall 50mm
Shank: 28mm

Steel wheel bolt
Overall 40mm
Shank 20mm

naj

68 280SL

Naj

Much thanks.
Shorter then I thought !!!

ED A.
1971 280SL
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO
1990 C43 AMG
2003 G55 AMG

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #44 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:48:38 »

quote:
Originally posted by RBYCC

quote:
Originally posted by naj

quote:
Can you confirm the lug bolt length?
12MM x 1.5 size
63MM overall length???
39MM thread length ?

Alloy wheel lug bolt:
Overall 50mm
Shank: 28mm

Steel wheel bolt
Overall 40mm
Shank 20mm

naj

68 280SL

Naj

Much thanks.
Shorter then I thought !!!

ED A.
1971 280SL
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO
1990 C43 AMG
2003 G55 AMG

Download Attachment:

WhlBlt.jpg
36.82 KB

naj

68 280SL

Peter van Es · « **Reply #45 on:** November 20, 2007, 01:33:36 »

I've just added lots of info from this board to the Wheels and Tires section of the Technical Manual. Although not yet complete, many part numbers can be found here and a very complete section on Alloy wheels.

We can still use more help putting this manual together!

Peter

Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php). Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280SL.

Ben · « **Reply #46 on:** November 23, 2007, 05:47:51 »

Just adding my 2c here for what its worth.......

I have used the Bundt wheels on my 230SL with 205/70x14 tyres, my wheels are 6Jx14. There are several designs of these wheels with slight differences.

The wheels used on W113,W108 and W114/115 cars differ from the W1076 cars in that the rim is more square. The W116 cars I've seen have openings that are almost square !

This is hard to describe so i'll try with some pictures !

Naj's wheels look like the W107 style so i'm wondering if they changed during its production run or maybe the W116's did ?

BTW the early W126's used similar wheels but 85> they used the flat faced 15" wheels that look totally different !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #47 on:** November 23, 2007, 07:05:20 »

quote:
Originally posted by Ben

Just adding my 2c here for what its worth.......

Naj's wheels look like the W107 style so i'm wondering if they changed during its production run or maybe the W116's did ?

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

They came off a W116

naj

68 280SL

waqas · « **Reply #48 on:** December 04, 2007, 17:50:05 »

Couldn't find the answer to this anywhere else, but how can one tell if a bundt wheel is original MB or a fake? Where is the MB part number usually stamped? Do the fakes (or "reproductions") also carry the MB part number? (in which case, how else can one tell the difference?)

Thanks in advance!

quote:
Originally posted by Douglas

Ed,

If you do track down a set of aloys, make sure they're OEM. There are loads of fakes out there.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

Waqas in Austin, Texas

jeffc280sl · « **Reply #49 on:** December 04, 2007, 21:24:02 »

Wagas,

The MB part number can be found on the inside of the rim. See pic attached.

Download Attachment:

bundt part no.jpg
65.43 KB

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

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Author Topic: ALLOY WHEELS (Read 41423 times)

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