Author Topic: Thinking about taking the plunge... (Read 14532 times)

Paddy_Crow · « **on:** October 20, 2007, 17:37:55 »

I just came back from looking at a stunning white 230 SL. It has a few needs, but nothing that seems too major to me. I don't think the original color was white, the dash is gray (am I correct that the dash is supposed to match the body?).

It has two mechanical needs. First and foremost is the steering, it has about 4 inches of play. I wasn't able to determine where the play is, although it seems like there is some wobble in the output shaft from the box. Even if I have to burn $700 or so on replacing the box, I think I can handle it. It also seems like it could use new engine mounts, it seems to shake a little too much. Anyone ever done this, is it a tough job?

The carpets are obviously original and quite musty smelling. How tough of a job is that to do yourself? It doesn't look that bad, although I'm sure there's some hidden things that are a pain. It's not an immediate necessity, just something down the road.

Any thoughts?

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

dseretakis · « **Reply #1 on:** October 20, 2007, 17:44:55 »

Hmmm, musty carpets. Have you lifted them to look for rust through underneath?

Dimitri

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #2 on:** October 20, 2007, 17:52:07 »

Yes, the sheet metal is all very, very solid. It's been on a hoist, I've thoroughly checked it out. Also lifted the panels behind the seats and checked back there, nothing. Shock towers are rock solid.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

merrill · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2007, 18:20:42 »

so, interior stuff is easy, the had stuff on the sl is the dash.

have you had a mechaic do an inspection for you? it would be worth the cost.

Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

rogerh113 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2007, 18:43:24 »

There is a typical steering slop issue, which consists of two plastic bushings failing in a coupler just above the steering box. Probably pretty easy to check - just locate the coupling and have someone else turn the steering wheel. If the movement is in the coupling it should be pretty obvious. The bushings are less than $20 - don't know if you are handy, but not a difficult job to replace.

Regards -- Roger

PS - the 230SL is a lovely car to drive. Sounds like you are already pretty much smitten......

TheEngineer · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2007, 18:53:31 »

Rust! Rust! And check the engine number against the data sheet.

'69 280SL,Signal Red,Automatic,retired engineer, West-Seattle,WA

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #6 on:** October 20, 2007, 18:57:50 »

I design engines for a living and I've spent a good part of my life swinging a wrench. I generally have no problem under the hood. Dashboards and interior panels annoy me, it seems like I always break something trying to get them apart.

I've heard about those bushings, what do they look like? There were two white pieces in the console box with flanges on them, about 16-20 mm hole in them. I asked what they were for.

The guy that owned the car was working on a full restoration, had put a number of years into it. But he got old and died, now his family is selling it.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #7 on:** October 20, 2007, 18:58:50 »

Had a mechanic check it out, also checked out the engine S/N, it matches.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #8 on:** October 20, 2007, 19:03:44 »

What type of hoist? The x shaped one that goes underneath the car or the two rails that you drive the car up on?

Read up on hoisting in this forum. There is a problem with hoisting with the X style...something to do with breaking old and worn suspension mount hardware when the wheels hang down.

Watch for the hidden costs...$300 each sunvisors, $600 interior wood, $1000 each for new rear drums if they are too thin to be turned. The convertible top frame is no longer available new and good used ones are some insane amount of money $1200 or $3200 I can't remember which. The front grill is another $1200 item.

Did you take off the screw on covers over the...shoot my mind just went blank for the right name...curved part under the doors and sill plate that runs between the two wheel wells on each side...

Sometimes people slap new covers on over the rotted support structure that they cover rather than doing a proper repair.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

jeffc280sl · « **Reply #9 on:** October 20, 2007, 19:14:41 »

The steering play can be many things. Tie rods are cheap and easy. Does it have power steering? If so, there is some adjustment available in the steering box itself but I've not heard of anyone needing to adjust for play there. Here is a diagram of the steering column. There is a universal type joint in the column that sometimes needs to be replaced. Take a closer look underneath as someone moved the steering wheel and give us some more feedback.

Repairs for these cars have a way of sneaking up on you. Here is a example of a steering related problem on my car.

Leaky power steering pump replaced. Now that the steering gear box has good pressure the seals in the steering gear box began to leak. Same can be said for brakes sometimes. A new brake booster can means you may also need new master cylinder. Plan on having stuff like this happen. Rust surprises and major engine work can run into some $$$.

Download Attachment:

Steering Shaft.jpg
23.82 KB

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #10 on:** October 20, 2007, 19:42:17 »

It has power steering. I tried looking underneath while someone was moving the wheel, but I couldn't see anything obvious. Checked out the tie rod ends while on the hoist, they are sound.

I'm fairly well informed on the risks involved with ownership of vintage cars. As an engineer in the auto industry, I'm constantly surrounded by vintage car buffs.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

230slhouston · « **Reply #11 on:** October 20, 2007, 20:22:38 »

The engine mountings are relatively easy to replace. I just replaced mine two weeks ago. Cost was around $45 from autoparts warehouse. I replaced the transmission mount as well, it was fairy compressed. If it is an auto, the linkage will foul against the cross plate.

MBP

J. Huber · « **Reply #12 on:** October 20, 2007, 21:14:19 »

Paddy, yes the dash should match exterior. Not critical obviously for day-to-day use but it would be nice to have them match someday. Carpet is easy -- like others said, it is what's underneath that matters. You haven't mentioned year and price being asked. The latter makes a huge difference in how we all think.

PS I had my engine mounts done -- mine ran 120 plus labor I believe. About 4-5 hours but I had subframe mounts and shocks done at same time.

James
63 230SL

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2007, 22:19:11 »

I don't want to comment too much while I'm negotiating with the owner, but we're talking mid teens pricewise.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

J. Huber · « **Reply #14 on:** October 21, 2007, 09:04:37 »

quote:
Originally posted by Paddy_Crow

I don't want to comment too much while I'm negotiating with the owner, but we're talking mid teens pricewise.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

Understood. Well keep your eyes open and take good notes. I think you are in reasonable territory...

James
63 230SL

rogerh113 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 21, 2007, 17:50:26 »

Hello,

If you are still interested in steering bushing info, here goes. This is based on a box with no power steering, but I imagine the coupling is probably the same. The coupling is just above the steering box, and is the connection between a short shaft out of the top of the steering box (splined on top) with the steering shaft from the steering wheel (splined on bottom). The bushings are inside the coupling, so you can't see them, but they are pretty easy to remove and replace. If you locate the coupler from the top from inside the engine bay, you should be able to hold, or at least feel, the lower section of the coupling near the steering box. If someone then moves the steering wheel (steering lock released, of course), you should be able to determine if the slop is in the coupler (lower part of coupler/steering box does not move), or in the box. For my standard steering, there is about 0 slop with the new bushings, and it was pretty easy to see the problem before bushings were replaced (once I knew where to look). There are probably lots of coupling replacement topics you can find with a search on this database...

Regards and good luck -- roger

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #16 on:** October 21, 2007, 19:52:00 »

Thanks, that's good to know. I was looking underneath the car, I couldn't see any problem from there. Can you think of a reason for them being plastic? Wouldn't bronze make more sense? I have a metal turning lathe in my basement, I could easily make a set.

I have a hunch the guy knew what was wrong with it and was going to replace the bushings, but he got sick and died before he got the chance. The white bushings I saw were sitting in the console box. I'll let the owner know what they're probably for.

I also have a hunch they're going to try to squeeze me for more money, I made an offer yesterday and haven't heard back. That will kill the deal right then and there.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

rogerh113 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2007, 20:03:00 »

The final straw that drove me to change the bushings was that there was a metallic clunk through the steering wheel when I was turning - really annoying and worrying. I should have diagnosed and resolved the problem much earlier.... I would guess that the plastic bushings are pretty effective in buffering road shock from the steering box to the steering wheel. Doubt that brass would be soft enough to offer much relief.... The road feel and smoothness are really pretty excellent when the bushings are in good shape - the design actually works well. Not sure if the new bushings are of a modern plastic that will last longer.

Regards -- Roger

seattle_Jerry · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2007, 00:18:18 »

My new opinion is that everyone should replace their suspension/steering parts that get worn with age.

I just did my 92 chevy pick-up and man what a difference. Its kinda like the frog in water that is slowly brought to a boil...you don't notice the difference because it is gradual. There is no question that it was money well spent as soon as you take the car on a test drive.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2007, 15:28:52 »

I can say more now, I think I'm going to buy this car (warning, pictures makes the page load very slowly):

http://www.vintagesalesonline.com/2005mercedes/mercedescar.php?AutoID=169

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

DaveB · « **Reply #20 on:** October 22, 2007, 16:03:00 »

A great car for that price.

DaveB

ja17 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 22, 2007, 21:00:28 »

Hello Paddy,

The plastic (nylon like) bushings help reduce vibration over metal bushings. Mercedes was quite involved with this task. On the shifter you will find numerous plastic bushings also to illiminate vibrations. Instead of making metal bushings you may want to consider using a better modern plastic which will not degrade as fast as the originals. Some people grease the bushings duing installation. Using the wrong kind of grease will degrade the plastic and cause it to fail sooner.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #22 on:** October 24, 2007, 08:29:33 »

I'll be picking the car up on Saturday, I'm already geeked about it.

I want to put in a plug for Paul Padget and Vintage Sales, it's always a pleasure to meet and do business with honest people who know their stuff.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #23 on:** October 27, 2007, 18:06:34 »

Update- the car in the ad now resides in my garage! Drove down to Cinci with a car trailer and hauled it home. It's only supposed to be in the low fifties tomorrow, though, so I'm not sure I'll be able to take a spin with the top down...

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

Paddy_Crow · « **Reply #24 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:49:52 »

I just obtained the data card, according to it the original exterior color was white. I wonder why the dash doesn't match (gray)?

In it's new home:

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

News:

Author Topic: Thinking about taking the plunge... (Read 14532 times)

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