Had accident in 63 230sl help! need advise ASAP

[marti]

Hello all.  Well, tuesday I was hit by a 21 year old driver of a 2008 toyota.  It was not my fault and there wa nothing I could do to stop it...if there was any rust on my floor boards I would have found out--that's how hard I hit my breaks.  We were going about 40 miles per hour.  The damage is to my left, drivers side.  The damage is on the fender, the bumper, the fog lights and the headlight.  The hood is o.k. and although I don't know for sure until I take it in to the mercedes shop, I think the frame and everything is o.k.  The problem is the other insurance company want to TOTAL my car--I have never been in an accident before.  Does anyone have information to offer?  I called an attorney, and he said, "you should know how much your car is worth" but I really don't.  All I know is that it is european, has a very early vin number for 1963.  She still runs good, was not in museum shape before the accident, has 57,0000 Kil and I really like it. Any advise you have, especially those in California would be helpful.  I called the Museum in Irvine, but they said they don't do "collision" work...would you consider this to be collision work or restoration work?

thanks  marti

Mpotter

[blue230sl]

have you checked with your insurance company about this? have you had a professional inspection done? any repair estimates? you should get all that before you agree to anything.

john
64 230sl
89 190e 2.6

[jameshoward]

Marti,

Bummer. Sorry about the car. There has been some good discussion on the site over the past few weeks where a lady (Anne, I think) had her car stolen. She is going through the mangle with her insurance company and there are some good contacts there to whom you might turn for help/advice.

Having never written off a car in the US, I do not know exactly how insurance companies operate. However, in the UK, if a car is written off and settlement made, it is possible to buy the car back from the insurance company at its scrap value. If that is also the case in the US, this might work out better for you. You could take the settlement, buy the car at scrap value and then put the money back into the car again. I've seen it done several times and it often works out well. Especially if your car only has 57K km.

Good luck.

JH

[seattle_Jerry]

On buying it back make sure it wouldn't come with a salvage title. Remember to get money for not only the damages but for the loss of value to your low mile car now that it has an accident on its record.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[seattle_Jerry]

I should also say that you shouldn't take their word on the value of your car. It is their job to keep pay outs to a minimum. Average condition is around $25,000 I think. You may need to consider getting a lawyer who specializes in this area as well.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[Kenneth Gear]

You may want to invest in a subscription to the SL Market letter which tracks historical prices. It may be useful to share a recent copy with your insurance adjuster.  A fender bender with a modern car is different from one is a collector car.  

Which insurance company do you have?  Do you have a stated-value policy?

This should serve as a reminder to all of us to get "stated value" coverage and be sure it's been updated to reflect today's prices.  



Ken G
1971 280 SL Silver/red
1969 BMW 2800 (sedan)

[Peter van Es]

Best advice I had when I had an accident with my 280SL was to have it shipped immediately to a shop that specialises in Pagoda's and have the insurance company appraiser go there... the expert shop is able to a) tell the appraiser accurately what needs to be done, and b) will have a good view on the cost of replacement parts (especially chrome) to tell the appraiser.

It sounds really bad that they can declare the car a total loss from what sounds like primarily body damages.

Good luck

Peter

Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual (http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php). Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280SL.

[Raymond]

What are they offering?  If they want to give you $40,000 if might be okay.

Laws will vary from State to State.  In Florida, in most cases, when the other driver is ticketed for causing the accident, you are under no obligation to let the other guy's company total the car.  This is a collector car and regardless of what your policy says, the other guy's insurance company is responsible for making your car right again.  

Find someone who knows these cars to give you a value based on the condition pre-wreck.  Then get three repair estimates.  Twice, I have told  insurance companies to replace a late-model car with one in identical pre-wreck condition.  I had all my documentation of value and after they checked, one raised their offer a couple of times until I got a fair settlement, the other paid for the repair.  

Contact your State Insurance Commissioner's office to ask what they will have wanted you to do if you have to file a complaint later about the company. Document all your communication.  Insurance companies hate informed and committed consumers and they hate the scrutiny of regulators even more.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[seattle_Jerry]

Don't sign anything saying you are injury free either...how's the neck? Sometimes it takes a few days to kick in.

I am still going back and forth on installing head rests in my SL.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[J. Huber]

Hi Marti. First off, glad your are ok! What a bummer. Raymond's advice about getting three estimates from someone who repairs ours cars would be my first objective. Good luck.

James
63 230SL

[Douglas]

How early is the VIN? I ask because if it's really early, it should be factored into the value. If you have a really early example, don't let them tell you that's not relevant. A knowledgeable appraiser will understand this.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[J. Huber]

Just for more discussion... The only recent Calfornia accident claim I can tell about was a co-worker's '02 or so low mileage, great condition Honda Accord. She got nailed from behind -- and actually hit the car in front of her -- so pretty extensive damage front and back. The other car's insurance company totaled it -- she received slightly more than high "blue book" value. They did not give her the option to have old car back -- my guess is, they will now salvage many very good parts off it. So the thought of Marti getting money and her car back might be a long-shot.
 
To be honest, Marti's bad luck hit much closer to home with me than Suzy's stolen car (sorry Suzy -- nothing personal!)...I am not woried about theft too much -- but I drive mine very often and an accident could happen at any moment, really. And what would I do? Well, I'd ask you guys just as Marti has! But since I have an agreed value with Am. Collectors -- would that mean that is THE amount I'd get if mine was totaled? or stolen? Sadly, I probably couldn't find much of a Pagoda for that anymore...

James
63 230SL

[gugel]

Couldn't the Classic Center give you the name of an appraiser?  It seems to me a good appraiser should be able to establish the pre-accident value of the car based on the condition of the undamaged part.

Also, can't your own insurance company help you fight the other one so they don't total the car?  From your description, it doesn't sound like the damage should be all that hard to repair, and you don't want a salvage title.

Chris Earnest

[seattle_Jerry]

James...sounds like you need to get a new appraisal.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[seattle_Jerry]

Marti...I didn't realize you were a female...that adds new advice. Don't let them jack you because you are a female. Make sure you have all your info and ducks in a row. Because you are a female they will assume you know nothing about cars and work that to their advantage. So study up...you should be on break from school for the holidays. Heck...use the law school's library to look up precedents.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[Douglas]

My experience has been that the insurance company (Allstate, in my case) will do the right thing if you can substantiate the value, but they're not going to make it easy. You really do have to make an airtight case for fair market value. Obviously, this depends on the insurer, but my experience was that they start low and—"surprise, surprise"—have no qualms about hurting people's feelings about the value of their beloved collector car. Of course, they're hoping you'll shrug your shoulders and accept their miniscule offer and move on.

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[J. Huber]

quote:Originally posted by seattle_Jerry

James...sounds like you need to get a new appraisal.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

Hey Jerry. Probably not a bad idea. The last time I had appraisal was 1998. 17K then and it gets revised up slightly each year -- its at 22 or so I think. However, I do have a few troublespots in the sills/floor corners that will keep me out of the big leagues. If only those were not there -- I'd repaint like Bob P is -- and really be stylin'!

James
63 230SL

[gugel]

Marti,

Another thought.  As you're in southern CA, I suggest you contact Tom Colitt (tcolt@netzero.com).  He's a first rate restorer and mechanic in the LA area, and I believe he could probably repair the collision damage to your car.  He's very knowledgeable about Pagodas, and could probably also give you a good estimate of the car's value.

Chris

[n/a]

marti

I have had several cars totaled over the years and have always been able to reach a settlement with the insurance company and have been able to keep the cars.   I have never had to surrender the title or get a salvage title.  The hardest part is determining the value of the car.  There are several ways to do this.  One is to have a professional appraiser inspect the car and give a written appraisal.  I know Hemmings Motor News has several listings for appraisers.  You can find a copy at the local book store or maybe in the public library.  You may also look on the internet and find an appraiser in your area.  There may also be some local hobbiest or car dealers that can help you.  However you do it, you need a legitimate estimate of the value for your car.  There is a good chance the insurance company will give you this amount for the car.  They like to settle these claims in a hurry.  It costs them money to have an unsettled claim.  

I do not know the rules now, but the insurance company used to figure about 20% for the salvage value of the car.  So say you settled on $30,000 for the value of the car you could get $24,000 cash and keep the car if that is what you want to do.  

If there is a dispute over the value of the car, you may be able to use an arbitration method whereby you get an estimate using your appraiser, the insurance company gets an estimate using their appraiser and then you get another estimate using an appraiser agreed on by you and the insurance company.  This is a lot of trouble for all the parties involved, but it may be worth it if you do not think you are getting a fair price for your car.  

If you really want the car fixed, you can be hardnosed and just say "I want it fixed."  Many times they will fix the car if the cost is not too different from the cost to total the car.  

Anyway, good luck on the outcome.  Keep us posted on what you do>  It may help someone else in the same situation sometime.  

Iverson

[marti]

Hello all.  I just wanted to get back to you all and say thanks for the advice.  The smartest thing I ever did was register an this forum.  I hope you all take notice of this and make sure you have your cars insured.  I learned this lesson--I only have liability coverage -- so I have to rely pretty much on the other drive to cover everything although my insurance may help some.  I understand what you said about not signing anything....and like you said...I felt o.k. after the accident but by the third day was in pain.  So sad too because I am the junior cross-country coach and have a bunch of kids that are qualified to go to Kansas for the Nationals and I will no longer be able to run with them until I heal.  I went to the doctors..he said the seat belt held me in really tight but my head hit the steering wheel because of the impact and goofed up my neck pretty bad--no worries...I'll heal.  I love the advise about being a girl..so aad...but so true..but as I always said, I may be blond, I may be a women, but damn, I have good taste in cars!  

The insurance adjuster came out to look at my car (excuse me when I say he was a little toad of man who drove up in a one of those square box cars) and began to pick about my car (I have rust by the licence plate on the chrome bumper, etc.)  I didn't say anything though.  The adjuster called later to say "I would have a check on Monday." (just like you all predicted).  I again said nothing...I have found an attorney (who drives a classic car) and I have printed out all the references you gave me for repairs and for appraisals.  I'm not afraid of a good fight.  My pagoda was my second car--I have three boys so my other car is a Yukon) so I am in no hurry.  the adjuster said again that I would receive a salavage title and retain my car but thanks to you guys I understand more about what that means.  I have an appointment tomorrow at Fletcher Jones Merecedes in Newport Beach tomorrow and I will call the Benz Classic car place to about getting them or someone to appraise the car--I think your all right about having the appraisal done by independent people.

I think it would be a shame if another pagoda should have to be parted out--specially when she runs and everything is fine (unless there's frame damage of course).  

Someone asked my about her.  When I registered on the forum I gave my vin number...I don't have the numbers right now but they went something like....11300000244.  You all said that it meant it was 244 off the assembly line in 1963.  The Benz Museum people checked the numbers on the engine, etc. and said they matched (?).  she is also Euro--everything is in kil and she has the jump seat and is a 4 speed (which I think some people say is good for the early cars).  

Thanks for everything and I will keep you posted.

marti

Mpotter

[seattle_Jerry]

Cross-Country Nationals...that was always a good time. Although I think global warming has really taken the punch out of the season. Most of my Nationals were in the snow.

I like that the estimator's comment was that there was rust on the bumper...like that couldn't be replaced. Without checking the sills, floorboards and major supporting members how could he possibly know what shape it was in.

How about posting a pic for us?

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[seattle_Jerry]

Whats the latest?

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[marti]

Hell again. Sorry I haven't gotten back to the forum--in addition to getting a special needs italian greyhound puppy, three boys and carrying 15 units at Cal State University Fullerton ...and a wrecked pagoda...life has been busy.

The latest on the car is---the insurance company said they will not total it--the appraisal came in higher than their damage estimate.  I took it to Anaheim Body they are certified Mercedes repair and body work and they seem to think it is work fixing.  According to her insurance company -- her collision limit is 10,000.  The estimate is from her insurance was 12,000 wish is low I think.  I would have to sue her for the rest...she's 21 and works at Victoria Secret. ... not good news.  I just got a new camera finally and will post pictures tomorrow so you all can take a look and tell me what you think.  

marti

Mpotter

[waqas]

Marti, sorry to hear about that. Do you have uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage on your own policy?  I think this would cover the difference (up to the elective coverage amount).

Waqas in Austin, Texas

[seattle_Jerry]

I'm not sure the estimate from her insurance matters. At least in WA State you can take it where ever you want and are not required to take the lowest estimate.

$10,000 max??? I can't believe they are allowed to insure that low! Even the most minor fender benders are $2,000.

I know my insurance picks up the slack when the other party doesn't have enough.

I looked up state by state insurance minimums...scary

http://personalinsure.about.com/cs/vehicleratings/a/blautominimum.htm

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C