Installation of amplifier w/Europa 2-advice please

[jameshoward]

My '66 230SL came with a Europa 2 radio. It has sound, but there seems to be a fault with the internal gubbins of the wireless in that you have to max the volume to hear anything. I intend to try and fix. I have copied Ed Cave's excellent installation of a the MP3 wire into the ashtray on the car, and it works well. Whilst the radio is out, I would like to investigate fitting a small (100w?) amplifier under the drivers seat in order to be able to hear music whilst driving. I have 2 kicker panel speakers and do not want more. But I do want to hear the music.

My question: how do I take the output from the radio which I assume will be from the speaker terminals shown in the photo - be it from my radio signal or MP3 signal when the player is on - and feed it into the amp which takes photo leads? The leads I have seen in the shops all have those phono plugs on the end. As you can see from my attached photo of the back of my Europa 2, there are no fancy sockets in sight.

I am happy with the part that takes the signal from the amp to my kicker panel speakers. I assume I take a wire direct from the battery to the amp to give it power. Are there any other tips?

Please note that I am not trying to 'pimp my ride.' I just like music and would like to hear how others have put a modern amp in line with an older radio such as mine.

Thanks.

James


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[rusty_parts2001]

This may not be a direct answer to your question, but here goes.  Most Becker Europa II radios have plenty of volume without an amp, so yours is clearly defective.  Why not find another Europa II that works and use it.  That would be cheaper than buying an amp and trying to rig it to compensate for the weakness of yours.  Plan 2 would be to send your unit in to Becker for a refurbishment.  Used Becker Europa II's are not that difficult to find, nor are they that pricey.

[66andBlue]

Hello James,
give Koenig's a call they should have a answer for you. Or if you decide to have the radio repaired they are the best in your location.
http://www.koenigs-klassik.de/_Becker_/_becker_.html

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[sjiatrou]

James:
Have you considered an amplifier with speaker-level inputs vice line level inputs.  These will allow you to take the signal from the speaker output of the Becker and put them directly into the amp.

Steve

Steve
Seaside, CA
1964 230sl roadster
White (050)/Black (116)

[jameshoward]

Steve,

I did not know one could obtain an amp that uses wire inputs vice line. Do you know of such an amp? I have searched a little and cannot find one.

Someone off line mentioned that I need some kind of "pass filter" because I have to use the wires from the speakers.

Genuinely confused. I would have thought that others would have done this install, actually, becuase of the weak powerout from the radios.

Alfred, thanks for the advice. I spoke to them, but I'd describe them as being on the less than helpful side of useful. They offerred me a new radio, but didn't seem hugely interested in repairing my one although they said it is possible. I thought they'd have leapt on the problem given my pretty clear description of the fault but instead a I got a "well, it could be anything." Which clearly it cannot. Anyway, I'd like to keep mine. I am going to try and find a local repair person. I am not hopeful, though.

Thanks,

JH

[Paddy_Crow]

A band pass filter will not boost your output (no filter of any kind will). What it does is filter out all frequencies other than those in the band of interest. A graphic equalizer, for example, is a set of band pass filters.

If your amplifier is indeed bad, boosting its output will not likely produce a satisfactory signal. There's a good chance it will be distorted. I would correct the problem in the radio (or replace it) first. I would also try hooking up another source to the speakers to make sure there isn't a problem there (and vice versa, hook your radio up to another set of speakers). Did your kicker panel speakers ever produce satisfactory sound or has this always been a problem? What is the impedance of the speakers? The MB dash speaker is 4 ohm, if you've put in 8 ohm or higher it will affect performance. How are the kicker panel speakers wired back to the mono output of the radio? Are they in series or parallel?

Incidentally, you can solder a set of RCA jacks on the end of pretty much any wire. You can also cut a patch cord and strip the insulation, providing bare wire input on one end. The problem with using the output of your radio as an input to another amplifier is that it will be at too high of a voltage, possibly damaging your amp or speakers (or both). That signal would need to be attenuated somehow. I have read that it is possible to get a line level output from a Becker radio, but I haven't done it so I have no idea how.

When a repair person says it could be anything, they're telling you they aren't sure they'll be able to fix it. They don't want to build up your hopes.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

[jeffc280sl]

James,

Some Alpine amps (MTV-T420) have both preamp and speaker level inputs.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

[sjiatrou]

James:

Crutchfield lists about 74 amps that accept speaker-level inputs (http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Group/ProductMenu.aspx?g=120&tp=115&nvpair=AG_General_Features%7cYCSpeaker_Level_Inputs) They also have some good help links that describe the various inputs and outputs available on the amps.  Their helpline is also quite useful.

Disclaimer: I am not advocating purchasing from Crutchfield, I am simply using them as a source of information.

I hope this helps.

Steve


Steve
Seaside, CA
1964 230sl roadster
White (050)/Black (116)

[pauldridge]

Steve,

A final and inexpensive solution is just to purchase a speaker output to line-level converter from Crutchfields.com.  I've used one of these, both in my home stereo for long runs, and in my car.  It is only $19 and a very simple installation.
see:  http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=721&i=142SLC4&search=adapter&tp=2001

Its called a Scosche SLC4, Crutchfield Item #142SLC4

Phil

230SL, 59 Jag MK IX, 65 Stingray Roadster, 89 Carrera Cabriolet

[gdpmv152]

My two cents:
When I purchased my 250SL, the car was pretty much a virgin, no abuse, no butchery, but the radio hole had been hogged out and a newer deck installed. Since the opening was enlarged and the deck was cheap, I bought a nice Panasonic unit with all the whistles because I too dig my tunes. But the volume sucked and I decided to install an amp. I can't remember the brand and model, but it fit PERFECTLY behind the glove box, on top of the passenger under knee guard card board panel. I simply rested it upon the foam padding, isolated all the wiring, and it works awesome. No one knows it's there, it misses the wiper arm as it rotates, totaly cool. And one more snipet, I was able to fit two 3" speakers on top of the same footwell panels without drilling holes and much improving the sound. Remember, no holes drilled, no damage to panels, can be converted back to stock, AND good tunes.
Maybe a help, or not, but it worked for me.

Greg

[jameshoward]

I have finally finished putting the amplifier into my car. I've had it for several months but made a concerted effort to crack it this weekend. It actually took all weekend, as I found some rust that needed sorting.

The car had a Backer Europa II and some very old 5.5 inch sony speakers. I was not trying to pimp my ride, but simply wanted to be able to hear the music whilst driving. I replaced the sony speakers with Infinity Kappa 50.7 woofers and also put the matching tweeters in the foot well. I have placed the 50W Alpine amp under the drivers seat, where it fits nicely. The crossovers are hidden in the dash.

Because of the fiddly nature of the job (replacing the wiring and cutting holes for the tweeters, I did not exactly enjoy the work. However, now it's done I am pretty happy with the result.

Here is a photo of the amp just before the seat is replaced. There is also a photo of the tweeters. I elected to keep the original (to me at least) and old sony grilles as the new Kappa ones are somewhat flashy.

The photo of the tweeters has a strange circle above the tweeter - my kicker boards are not that dirty! (The camera, however, is).

JH



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[TheEngineer]

Interesting post! In my W113 the previous owner installed a Blaupunkt Munchen in the dash and a Alpine MRV-F-407 under the driver's seat. The amplifier gets it's input from the pre-amp output of the radio. I have never cranked-up the volume very far, it would blow my ear drums. One time, at a Mercedes meet, for demonstration, I cranked it up a little: You could hear it two blocks away and it blew the 10 amp fuse.

[scoot]

I think that the original post is long since obsolete, but regarding the question at hand - instead of using the speaker outputs to go to the amplifier you would want to use the unamplified signals that pass through the accessory cable plug.  See the technical manual on the becker accessory plug and it will more or less explain which pins are the unamplified audio.  On a similar note, most of the becker radios have a 12 volt output to turn on the electric antenna -- actually they seem to have two outputs.  You could use that to trigger a relay to turn on an amplifier (since the 12 volt output is not going to be enough current to drive a big amplifier).

[69280sl]

Engineer:

Admttedly off topic, but;

Are those A/C control knobs original to your A/C unit?  Are they illuminated like some of the defroster blower switches are?

Gus

[jameshoward]

Scoot,

When I installed the amp I had to use the amplified signal from the Europa 2 because the accessory cable was already in use. I chose an amp that could take amplified signals from a radio such as mine. The amp is very loud, but the sound quality is not all it could be. I don't think it's the speakers, as they are very good and reviewed well by many. I think the real problem is lack of any decent bass. The tweeters are very sensitive and so I think the high ranges tend to emasculate the lower ones.

But I'm very happy with it and it works fine. Plus you can hear music when rattling along at high speeds with the roof down.

[TheEngineer]

Engineer:

Admttedly off topic, but;

Are those A/C control knobs original to your A/C unit?  Are they illuminated like some of the defroster blower switches are?

Gus

Hi Gus: Happy New Year! I have no idea if the knobs are original. They look the same as the heater control knob and are not illuminated. The heater control knob isn't illuminated either. But there is a small light between the two knobs on the A/C that comes on when the compressor clutch is energized. The heater control levers are illuminated.

[zoegrlh]

See my post under "Electrical & Instruments" concerning Becker of North America now closed.
Bob

[Dahlknudsen]

Hello James,
give Koenig's a call they should have a answer for you. Or if you decide to have the radio repaired they are the best in your location.
http://www.koenigs-klassik.de/_Becker_/_becker_.html

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

Thanks for the link, just found what I dreamed of... an Ipod cable that goes into the aux in the Europa radio... Thanks

http://www.koenigs-klassik-radios.de/_py_Zusatzgeraete-Adapterkabel-Stereo-fuer-MP3-Ipod-etc/a-32101/

[scoot]

Yes, that cable gives you ipod in for the becker, but a more complicated cable would also give you Ipod in AND unamplified signal out that could be sent to an external amplifier bypassing the becker amplifier.

[jameshoward]

It's worth point out that, at least in my limited experience, the simple IPOD cable if plugged into the back of the radio does adversely affect the radio signal if the ipod is not in use. I have to unplug the 3.5mm jack extension cable that goes to my MP3 player in order to get a decent radio signal. But it's worth it!

JH

[scoot]

It's worth point out that, at least in my limited experience, the simple IPOD cable if plugged into the back of the radio does adversely affect the radio signal if the ipod is not in use. I have to unplug the 3.5mm jack extension cable that goes to my MP3 player in order to get a decent radio signal. But it's worth it!

OK:

DIN plug on back of radio <--> Junction Box w/ 3.5 mm jack <--> 3.5 mm plug <--> IPOD

right?  If so, the junction box can be wired such that plugging the plug into the jack ALSO switches the amplifier input from radio to ipod.  In otherwords, having a plug in the jack disconnects the path from the radio to the amp and replaces it with a path from the ipod to the amp.  This is as it should be.  If it did not do this, the amp would be receiving signals from both the radio and the ipod (which would be bad) or it would never be receiving signals from the radio, which would also be bad.  If it were not this way, how would the amp know whether you wanted to listen to radio or listen to ipod???

[jameshoward]

Scoot,

OK:

DIN plug on back of radio <--> Junction Box w/ 3.5 mm jack <--> 3.5 mm plug <--> IPOD

right?.....If it were not this way, how would the amp know whether you wanted to listen to radio or listen to ipod???

It's a Mercedes. It should just know!!

 

[Peter van Es]

What you need, and what the Koenigs cable is made with, is a 3.5mm jack socket like in the attachment. When a 3.5mm plug is inserted (carrying the iPod signals) these are passed to exits D and E in the diagram. If the 3.5mm plug is removed, D carries F and E carries G.

If you look at the DIN plug interface in the Ipod section of the Technical Manual you'll see that D and E need to be connected with Din plugs 3 and 5 (which carry the amplifier inputs L+R). F and G need to be connected to 4 and 1 (output tuner L+R).

So, if the 3.5mm jack is removed, the spring loaded contacts link the tuner outputs to the amplifier inputs.

If the 3.5mm Ipod jack is inserted, the spring loaded contacts disconnect the tuner from the amplifier and link the iPod outputs to the amp inputs. That's why you'd need to remove the jack from the socket, otherwise radio will not work.

Peter