green engine mods

[nick350]

does anyone know what mods can be done to make our cars greener?

[Richard Madison]

It's New Years Eve and Silly Season so here's the last groaner (bad joke) of 2007:

Question: "What can be done to make our cars greener?"
Answer: How about a re-paint with 268H Dark Green or 834G Moss Green?

Richard M  )

For those who may not catch this subtle attempt at humor, the question is asking how our cars can be made less harmful to the environment. One real (but impractical) answer might be: Don't drive the car.

RM
That's two zingers in one message.

[seattle_Jerry]

Start with little things like proper tire inflation and not carrying a spare (just fix a flat in a can) to improve mileage.

Make sure the car is well tuned, check that the injection system is working properly.

Switch to modern A/C gases.

I'm gonna look into a catalytic converter. I feel hugely guilty about the difference in exhaust between old and new cars.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[psmith]

I would assume a modern electronic fuel injection and ignition system system would help a lot.  There are several firms that make laptop programmable systems for hot rods and muscle cars.  

Jerry, if you find a free flowing cat that will fit, let us know.

Pete S.

[Shvegel]

Modern 3 way catalytic converters need the fuel ratio to shift fairly rapidly between rich and lean in order to work properly. In a modern electronic fuel injection system this is controlled by the oxygen sensor which senses a rich mixture(not enough oxygen) and drives the system lean then senses a lean mixture(too much oxygen) and drives the system rich.  

Not to mention if you do get a cat to "Light off" with an overly rich mixture common to older fuel injection systems you might just set your car on fire.

Pretty good explanation of coverter operation on the link below. I direct your attention to page 3.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h64.pdf

In order to use a modern 3 way converter you would need to replace your fuel injection system or figure out a way to add electronic control to your present system(use a Bosch K jetronic computer tied to a stepper motor to drive the fuel mixture in the place of the warm up regulator/atmospheric pressure sensor) which would be a tall order.

[glennard]

It is good to know that Toy-otas(as opposed to Real-otas) are NOT running at the ideal fuel/air ratio.  Maybe they would pollute less over-all, if they ran continually at the ideal fuel/air ratio.  Lead and sulfur are out of the fuel gas.  Next, the wackos(?) are going to get the nitrogen out of the air!

[Paddy_Crow]

quote:Originally posted by glennard

It is good to know that Toy-otas(as opposed to Real-otas) are NOT running at the ideal fuel/air ratio.  Maybe they would pollute less over-all, if they ran continually at the ideal fuel/air ratio.  Lead and sulfur are out of the fuel gas.  Next, the wackos(?) are going to get the nitrogen out of the air!

Stoichiometric and ideal are not synonyms.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch...

[seattle_Jerry]

Well I guess a modern cat would be difficult, but I was thinking more of a 70's cat. I know my triumph and MG didn't have any fancy system on them. They just slapped a cat at the bottom of the header.

Sure it isn't perfect, but it is a small reduction. I'll study up and arrive at a more educated opinion.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[psmith]

Stoichiometric, it reminds me (shudder) of my chemistry classes!  

Any thoughts on after-market fuel injection?  I've found a couple of suppliers, but they're all designed for American V8's.  Using a Bosch system from a later Mercedes would seem to be ideal, but I don't know if they can be adjusted to work with our engines.

Jerry, in the meantime, you can always do a little penance and take transit or bike to work for a few days.

Pete S.

[Benz Dr.]

It helps if you know a bit about the original design of the engine. There are several inputs that go into air fuel mixture and since they're all mechanical the paremeters are not as wide as modern fuel injection.
When the car was introduced it was light years ahead of many cars. It was never considered that cats would be used on these engines as no one was using such things at the time.
 This engines runs rich at idle - that's normal. It also runs rich at full throttle which is also normal. These two conditions are required for different reasons. At idle the engine will stall if it's set to modern lean running conditionns. It needs to be at least 3% or more to run properly. It leans out considerably at road speed and it actually pretty good even by todays standards. This is where almost all of your driving will be done - I don't see the fasination with idle mixture other than what it takes to make the engine run smoothly.
At full throttle you need a rich mixture to prevent engine nock and burning of pistons. High performance engines are generally set to run rich at higher engine speeds. This is a high performance engine.
There's also another reason why you don't want to run your engine too lean. Modern unleaded fuel produces higer exhaust temps and can lead to engine damage. Normally the valve seats can handle this increased temp but a lean condition could spell disaster.

I kind of like spewing out old fashioned exhaust fumes. Modern ones smell funny.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

[Vince Canepa]

quote:Jerry, in the meantime, you can always do a little penance and take transit or bike to work for a few days.

Exactly.  My son has a 1999 C43.  He uses mass transit for work and routine tasks.  He uses the C43 for pleasure.  He spent roughly $500 on fuel last year.  I would argue that he is doing less harm to the environment then my self-righteous neighbor with his Prius who drives constantly.

If people really want to help the environment they really need to look at their habits.

Vince Canepa

[Buz]

I would bet that 2 good sport catalysts would lower emissions by 75 percent with a properly functioning fuel injection system. New cars have better fuel control but are about 98 percent cleaner than pre emissions cars.

[hauser]

Wouldn't there be a loss of power by adding a catalytic converter?  This was the case in the gray market cars that needed to be converted to meet DOT and EPA standards.  Personally I would hate to  sacrifice any performance in my 280sl.  If money was no object I would go the Mechatronic route.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[paulr]

"I kind of like spewing out old fashioned exhaust fumes. Modern ones smell funny."

This is fine, except in London UK we are to be charged £25 ($50) per day to enter London where I live. No exceptions!  That stinks.

paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL

[Khurram Darugar]

Paul we may be exempt, as our engines fall below the 3000cc capacity.
I think the £25.00 charge is applicable to all cars including pre 2001 (When C02 tax calc was introduced), which emit 225 gm per km CO2 and are more than 3000cc.


Kay
Euro 280sl LHD Auto.

[paulr]

Hi Kay

Please let it be that we are. I don't know why I suspect that we fell into band G, other than my street permit has banding me as such and has doubled in price...no exceptions. I haven't found ANY info regarding this on classic / pre 72 cars. Perhaps if you find some you'll let me know. I know Nick has similar concerns.

We can only hope that Ken Livingstone* takes Castros job and leaves us all alone.

* London's lunatic communist Mayor

paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL