W113 vs Boxster

[RGubbioli]

Dear All,

This is my first actual post on the forum even though I have been member for a while now as its been a while since I've wanted a Pagoda. Fortunately I am now in a position to purchase and properly enjoy a nice convertible car. I will have a daily driver car, so the convertible is purely a weekend pleasure for me.

The two cars on my final shortlist are the W113 SL and the Porsche Boxster, very different beasts, I know, but what leaves them on the same footing for me is that I like the looks of both, both are convertibles, each has its own charm and they can cost roughly the same to buy. As a classic car enthusiast (but not having owned one apart from a 90's 911) I am more enthused about the Pagoda, even though I am leaning more towards the Boxster as a real world choice given its relative comfort, practicality and performance.

So, here I am asking for your help and opinions on the merits of the Pagoda purely on an ownership experience and usability factor. I intend to use the car for long trips, for example, go and visit friends and family on the weekend (500mile round trip), or go to the beach (300 mile rnd trip). What makes me worried of the Pagoda is that it would be a 'drag' on the highway with loads of wind noise, very hot in the summer and slow cruising speed (I have seen the threads on max speeds, so know it will do 100mph+, but think 75mph is a better crusing speed?). Is this fair?

Thanks for any inputs and views!

Riccardo

[thelews]

One owns the Pagoda for its style, uniqueness and vintage appeal.  They do drive nicely, for 40 year old cars.  For modern day comfort, safety and reliability, the Boxter is a better choice.  For uniqueness, nostalgia and a conversation piece, the Pagoda.  This is not to say the Pagoda can't be reliable and hold its own in modern day traffic, you just need to be willing to make the investment of time and money to get it there.

John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual

[JamesL]

You can lug more stuff in a Pagoda; the trunk is bigger as is the cockpit.

More depreciation, MPG and airbags in the porker

More "discretionary" service costs, worries about the oil pressure etc in the Pagoda

[rob walker]

Riccardo, having owned a Boxster and currently owing a Pagoda I feel you really need to decide exactly what feel you want from a second car, either the ease and pace of a modern or the character of owning a classic. To compare the two is not really fair to either.
If you are looking for spending most of your time on the motorway then the Pagoda has its limitations, I do not feel happy crusing much more than the legal limit, but up to that the Pagoda is fine. If you are looking for A road driving then I prefer the Pagoda. As for noise, presumably you will look to have the top down anyway, in which case the noise is immaterial.I dont think the UK ever gets hot enough to worry about the heat of the summer. The Boxster has an incredible luggage capacity for a convertable but in the Pagoda you will get all you require in for a weekend away. If you intend to use in all UK weathers then probably the Boxster is more suitable as long as you remember to dry off the brakes as they corrode very fast. From a servicing aspect the Boxtser can be very expensive, just make sure the rear main seal has been replaced if your going for a 3.2. With the Pagoda you can get classic car insurance and zero cost road tax. Just go out and have some fun and try each model and see which one ticks your boxes.

Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey

[Kemal]

Welcome Riccardo,

I totally agree with John.
one can write the Pros & Cons on both cars, however, I believe you're either a Pagoda person or Porsche person . [ Classic Porsches are another story ]
If you're aiming to get from A to B in a short time then go for the Porsche, however, if you're not in any hurry and you're looking forward to a great drive in style & want to drive a piece of heritage that appeals to the young & old folk ! You choose !

Having said all that, I have over taken a porsche or two, just for the fun of it, to tune up the engine!
 '' I'm in no hurry''  Are you ?

kemal
280 SL Manual 69

[jameshoward]

Riccardo,

I agree with all of the views below, and particulary with Rob's points. One element not yet discussed here is the extent to which you'd wish to work on your car. I have never owned a Porsche but a friend has a new 911 and having looked at the mechanics of it all I do not think it could be tackled without some seriously expensive tools/diagnostics (assuming the car is out of warranty). The Pagoda is a different story, naturally. With the tremendous knowledge that exists amongst the members of this forum, together with the incredible repository that is this website I find that working on the car is not too difficult. Not only does that reduce the costs of ownership, it also means that you get to do things properly; not all garages bother to do that these days. So, if you are prepared to tinker, perhaps the 113 is a better option. However, given your travel and driving requirements when combined with the truly crappy UK weather, perhaps the Porsche would be a better choice.

Let us know what you decide.

JH

[rob walker]

James, yes a very important point, if tinkering is your relaxation then the Porsche is a non starter unless your experienced in the marque or very brave.

Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey

[RGubbioli]

First of all, thank you all for the great feedback! At least one thing is for sure, Pagoda owners are a friendly and international bunch.  

Although I am in the UK now, I will shortly be moving to Italy, more precisely on the shores of Lake Maggiore. As you can immagine, this is probably one of THE best locations for this type of car (IMHO). Generally mild weather, generally free flowing roads, and beautiful surroundings. The weekend trips would be to the Swiss Alps, the French riviera, East Italy (Veneto) and wherever else we think may be interesting. The occupants would be myself and the girlfriend.

I agree that its a totally personal choice, classic vs modern sports. In addition, the change in surroundings mean I don't really know how it will work out in practice - a new car brings many dreams and desires, but how many of them materialise (when I bought my 911 I was supposed to use it for long European trips, but in the end only went to Europe once in 2 years).

Although I am mechanically minded I probably wouldn't tinker much, especially as I don't have many tools, time or inclination. My idea of relaxing on the weekend is a nice drive followed by lunch or dinner and the occasional wash and wax. Having said that, I do love blasting down the autostrada at high speed, thus the attraction of the Boxster.

Other things that put me off the Boxster are the high maintenance costs (€10k new engines seems common) and the fact that its rather common and probably quite hard to resell in the future.

[rob walker]

Riccardo, you are very fortunate, I had 5 years in Liguria and adored every minute. If depreciation and maintenance costs are a concern then that would go very much against the Boxster, whereas buy wisely and you should not loose on a Pagoda. The Italian roads would be superb for a Pagoda and you can get plenty of cases of Barolo from the cantinas in the boot (trunk)!

Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey

[Kemal]

Hi Riccardo,

Which ever one you decide on do let us know.
What does your girlfriend think ?

Kemal
280 SL Manual 69

[DB280]

Having owned a 3.2 from new a few years ago I can honestly say it was one of the most souless cars I have owned.The mistake I made was going to it after owning a few 911s(SC's & Carreras)which certainly are not short on the soul side.The M3 SMG cabrio I owned after it was a much better car than the Boxter but after several years of these types of car I worked out how much they were actualy costing me and decided to go the classic route.Despite having owned my pagoda for over 3 years I can't compare it to driving a Boxter   because it is undergoing a rebuild and I have never driven it!If it comes to looks the Merc wins every time as I always thought that from the side profile the Boxter didn't know which way it was going.If I was in the market for another car now I think I would go for a 911 speedster(rare but very usable) or a PS auto art retro 911.This could be a late air cooled 911 with an the appearance of an early 70s RS carrera.Check their website
Ps you could always take a Pagoda to Mechatronik

[RGubbioli]

Kemal, the GF prefers the Pagoda, she is a classy lady    

DB280, Mechatroniks would be nice, a bit out of my price range though (the last I saw was £100k).

I guess one of the things that puts me off on the Pagoda is the buying process. I mean, its hard enough finding a decent 5yr old Boxster, never mind a 40yr old Pagoda! Plus, as I would like LHD then I will be looking on the continent and maybe even the US, so its hard to buy remotely....

[DB280]

Riccardo,
You could always go the restoration route if your not in to much of a hurry.Buying a car you know needs a lot of work can be safer than buying a car that appears to be good on the surface.It won't be cheap if you get the work done for you but you can have the car built to your spec in the colour you want.Mine is painted a Mercedes colour but not a pagoda standard colour so is one of a kind.My trips to the garage to see progress( and pay the monthly bills) are always exciting and I am now counting down the days to my first drive which should be in April or May.

Garry

[Kemal]

Originally posted by RGubbioli

Kemal, the GF prefers the Pagoda, she is a classy lady    

SO WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR ? [ Valentines day soon !(' ') ]
No regrets now !
(' ')
Kemal
280 SL manual 69

[JamesL]

If you are after a left-hooker, brush up on your german and nose there

There's a lot of VERY well looked after cars (SL Club Pagode is not a bad place to start)

Mechatronik have 2 on their site right now that are more "conventional"

[Cees Klumper]

"Italy, more precisely on the shores of Lake Maggiore. As you can immagine, this is probably one of THE best locations for this type of car (IMHO). Generally mild weather, generally free flowing roads, and beautiful surroundings. The weekend trips would be to the Swiss Alps, the French riviera, East Italy (Veneto) and wherever else we think may be interesting. The occupants would be myself and the girlfriend."

With that description there is no choice possible - it has to be a Pagoda.

Here's how that could well work. Check around and buy one that is well-sorted out from a private individual enthusiast. Do your own regular maintenance and have the major stuff (something once every 3-5 years on average) done by a good expert garage. If the time would ever come to sell you will get your money back plus inflation - assuming there's gasoline available at the time, that is! In the meantime loads of people will come up to you to compliment you on your choice of vehicle - something that will probably rarely if ever happen in that other car you are contemplating!

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[graphic66]

I vote for the SL. I just plain old don't like Porches. As for inclement weather I would say that I feel very comfy in my 230SL. In the hardest pouring rain, and freezing cold with just the ragtop up my girlfriend and I are very warm, dry and cozy. My car is just a great car in bad weather. I don't take it out in snow or ice just because of the salt on the roads. I do take it out in cold and rain. I'm sure many other owners are more sensitive to getting there cars wet. If your heater is in good condition and the car is in good shape I think the W113 is probably one of the better choices in vintage iron to get you there safe and comfortably. I just love the sound of the rain on the top and the great amount of heat from my heater in that wonderful cockpit. When I was about to purchase my car I asked a very knowledgeable friend if I should get my 230, or a Corvette. He said "Vettes are like a**holes, everybody has one". That was some good advice. When a Porche Boxster pulls up nobody notices, just another new car. Now my friends brand new 505HP Z06, that is hard to miss. He still misses the 230SL he sold me though. He however did have a Porche Boxster and didn't like it at all. He said it was hard to maintain and wasn't that fast.

[thelews]

quote:Originally posted by graphic66

I just plain old don't like Porches.

Have you driven a great running 356C?  Not A or B.  And I have 2 SLs.  Brings a smile to my face every time I drive it.





John
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual

[seattle_Jerry]

Have you sat in both? I sold my MGB to get an SL because I figured it would be more spacious. It is wider and there is slighly more headroom.
But and a big BUT ...it is severly lacking in leg room.
The steering wheel is buried in my lap and I can't move the seat back far enough by several inches of seat travel. The MG had way more room between the legs and wheel and you could move the seat back around 4 more inches than the SL.

I recently rode in my friends Ghia. It also had way more room.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

[peterm]

I use a carrera as a daily driver and the pagoda only realy comes out for shows or that enjoyable sunny day top down drive.  I love both cars for the individual role they play.  I really enjoy looking at the pagoda and in a diffrent way enjoy admiring the carrera.  there is no way i'd drive the pagoda as I drive the 911.  I love to hit turns and wiggle the rear not so with the pagoda that I treat as a fine piece of art.  Its all what you like.  When it snows I use the explorer!

[john.mancini]

Hello Riccardo,
Without stating the obvious, "Apples and Oranges", if you know what I mean. I sold my 2001 Boxster S a couple of years ago when we moved and my garage space shrunk.  I loved that car. It brought a smile to my face. BUT, what did I keep? Take a look in my garage.
Giovanni Mancini

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[erickmarciano]

since you asked
if you get a Porsche GET A REAL ONE  like a aircooled 911 .
I would not drive a boxter even if you gave it to me . For the type of driving you say you will do I would go for a 89 911 turbo , my secound favorite car after the Pagoda.

2004 Volvo V70-R
1971 280sl
1962 VW bug
1971 Harley FLH
1962 gs160 vespa

[RGubbioli]

Thanks again for all the replies!

Seattle Jerry does raise a good point regarding size... I am 6ft5 (1.96m), all legs, and have no idea if I fit inside. I just about fit in the Boxster and don't fit in the SL R129, never mind the SLK. There aren't many W113s around, although this weekend I may try and go to a dealer to see for myself how I fit inside.

Erickmarciano, I already had a 'real' Porsche (1993 C2) so time for a change, also not a great fan of the Turbos or any 80's 911 for that matter.

Finally, I agree that Germany is probably the good place to look for them. I have seen on mobile.de that there are literally hundreds of them for sale. Does anyone have any experience with a reputable dealer that specialises in classic Mercedes (and doesn't have 'diamond encrusted' prices)?

Thanks again!

[TheEngineer]

I'm cheap! My friends say no, you are an opportunistic buyer. Be that as it may,let's look at the cost of owning a Pagoda: Let's begin with a car that is rust free and in decent condition. I'm doing all my own work (paranoid). I got "collector plates". No annual fees, permanent registration. I got "Classic car insurance" $120 for two cars. Installed 3.27 rear axle: Makes a wonderful hiway car. Love to fix little things: Installed a 09 cam and a new head. Car runs like a watch and I feel like a million bucks driving it. The A/C works. It always starts, even in this very cold weather we have now. Most times, when I stop somewhere, someone comments on "such a nice car". On my Mercedes Wagon that has never ever happened, even though it's by far the nicer car. But it's the vintage and "the looks": Same thing happens with my '69 Honda Trail. Especially old guys love these older models. I won't loose money on this car ever.

'69 280SL,Signal Red,Automatic,retired engineer, West-Seattle,WA

[seattle_Jerry]

Riccardo...I don't think you will fit. My Dad had one when I was in middle school and about 5'8" tall. I fit then and it didn't occur to me that at 6'2" a Mercedes would be too small. Go find one to sit in.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C