Author Topic: W113 vs Boxster (Read 30853 times)

rob walker · « **Reply #25 on:** January 30, 2008, 01:37:44 »

Riccardo, I am 6'1" and I find it more comfortable than the Boxster I had. I have seen some taller guys fit in, you may wish to change for a smaller steering wheel to give a bit more clearance, but I would be suprised if it were and issue. Where are you based in the UK we can probably recommend where to go to try a good one.

Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey

jameshoward · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2008, 04:18:24 »

I am a shade under 6'4" and whilst getting in and out of my volvo is easier, drving the 113 isn't a problem at all.

For Ze Engineer - the thing that bugs me somewhat about my 230SL living in Germany is the RPM I need to get the speed I need to travel safely on the autobahn. (You don't want to be driving too slowly when some around you are doing 140mph and up). I don't know what axle ratios my 230SL is, but I wondered if you'd made the change to decrese your RPM to achieve the same speed. If that is the case, what axle did you use/from what car? Is this a complex job? I know there's quite a bit on the site about axle ratios but wondered if you'd documented your findings and the job in a thread somewhere?

James

glennard · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2008, 08:36:40 »

The 'reliability' factor. The Pagoda sheetmetal surrounds basically the same engine, suspension, tranny, electrical, etc. systems that MB used on cars from the late 50's thru early 70's-220SE, 250SE, 280SE, SLs, etc. A million cars- plus or minus. A lot of those vehicles racked up 200,000 miles or more. Ball joints replaced king pins, solid state fuel mgmt replaced analog, and other things. A medium well maintained Pagoda has the 200,000 potential, also. But, rust is still the killer.

France · « **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2008, 08:47:26 »

R. Gubbioli,

Unfortunately, you will be clawing your way up Lago Maggiore on most days---no fun driving there; the traffic is terrible! We used to do that commute all the time from CH to the south end and back. On the other hand, a Porsche in the Alps would be fun, but no one would look at you. The Pagoda loves people, and they love it--it's like having a fascinating aging movie star on your arm. As for rust, just buy a tin of Waxoyl.

The question is, do you want to drive in style, or do you just want to drive a depreciating been-there, done-that piece of metal? If you really want a fun Porsche, take the last of the Boxer engines...

He Who Must Be Obeyed is well over 6 feet and fits in both smartly.

James, please get that 3.27 diff so we hear no more moaning on that front

--makes all the difference in the world.

I completely agree with all the previous postings. To compare them is simply impossible.

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder seat
Sarasota FL; Alsace France; Switzerland
Think of your Pagoda as a woman with a past...in a stable now including a 1992 964/911 Carrera with Tiptronic

RGubbioli · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2008, 09:44:04 »

'France', I have been in the area every weekday (not weekends) since August last year so I kind of know the conditions. Agreed that the road from CH down to Verbania is very slow though, too many campervans, but I am hoping to avoid that (or use the Vespa to bypass the jams), especially at peak hours on the weekends.

Thanks to all for the feedback on height, I guess I need to try it out in person (this weekend, rob walker - I'm going to Classic Chrome and Chelsea Cars in London) as its very personal and depends on what one considers comfortable, their limbs, etc. One thing I can say though is that tall people have more difficulty in driving roadsters than do other people. Damn, half of them I don't even fit into!

As to the 'apples and oranges' factor, I tend to disagree. At the end of the day, they are both two 'fun' cars that people buy as a hobby (more the Pagoda than the Boxster, for sure). Yes, the style, the driving experience etc varies a lot but, if you add something like, say, a BMW 5 Series Touring into the equation, then its clear that Boxster and Pagoda are one type of choice (the apple) whereas the BMW would be totally another thing (the orange); at least, thats how I see it. I think its an amazing credit to the Pagoda that a car over 40 years old could still be considered a real choice against something that has only 10.

Overall, I have two main concerns about the Pagoda. One is the difficulty of buying a good, well maintained, one at a reasonable price and the second is using it for motorway trips (see jameshoward's point - glad to see there is a solution and am looking forward to understanding that better).

Finally, thanks once more for all your inputs, its great to see all the passion the Pagoda can build!

JamesL · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2008, 11:15:01 »

AVOID Chelsea Cars and Classic Chrome, especially the former

Do a search on here and you'll realise that most of their metal is not as good as it might be...

Try Silver Arrows, in Putney. Expensive but Michael knows his cars and will have a good un. You may not buy it but it'll run well enough. You may want to call him in advance...

And I use mine on the motorway. Yep it's noisy but I've been to Stuttgart and back in a weekend very happily

Kemal · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2008, 12:49:55 »

Quote

Originally posted by Tosh

AVOID Chelsea Cars and Classic Chrome, especially the former

I have to agree with Tosh,their cars look tired with no Wow factor as soon as you see them, except for michael at http://www.silverarrows.co.uk/ He does know his Mercs, I personally have had a chat with him a couple of times, well worth it.
He does ask a pretty penny for his cars, however,you can be assured they have been looked after, whether in the past or recently !

[ Let us know on how you get on .](' ')

Kemal
280SL
LHD Manual 69

upside2k · « **Reply #32 on:** January 30, 2008, 19:25:24 »

I must say I am surprized by the comparisons,by some,of these two cars.

When you you want to go fast in a very precise way, the Porsche is the obvious choice. The sheer torque, acceleration, and handling of the Porsche, plus the new technology, bear no comparison to the SL experience. I have a 2007 CarreraS Cabrio,at the moment, and I would suggest that you drive both for some little distance if the difference is not immediately obvious.

Around town, the SL ( I have a 67 230SL) is fun. The bench style seat, the openess, the look, and the sound, all contribute to the kick of driving, but....... driving this older car,at speed, for long drives cannot compare to the experience of the Porsche. When you come to the first Pass and press on the "Go" pedal to pass slow traffic, reality will set in very quickly.

John

Chad · « **Reply #33 on:** January 30, 2008, 19:46:52 »

Isn't it simply older nice car vs. new nice car?
The w113 will not meet all of your commuting needs easily; the newer car will meet your commuting needs and car driving needs more completely - except for the vintage style and feel. It's a trade off, a good dilemma to have.

1967 230SL

rob walker · « **Reply #34 on:** January 31, 2008, 00:55:56 »

Riccardo, I would echo Tosh's comments on the two garages you have chosen to visit, there has been no good reports from either. If you cannot get to see Michael at Silver Arrows then take a run up to Reading to Silchester Garage, the owner is a retired guy who started specialising in Pagodas due to the fact he loves them. He normally has a reasonable stock and has some real experts working for him.
There is also a great pub on the green in the village to make it a truly great day out!!!!!!

Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey

RGubbioli · « **Reply #35 on:** January 31, 2008, 06:03:19 »

Rob, Tosh and Kemal, thanks for the warning about the two dealers. I am only going there to check out the Pagodas for size and maybe for a drive but would probably not buy from them, especially in view of your advice. I have been in those dealers in the past and wasn't very impressed by their attitude. I remember that, years ago, when I was considering buying a Jag mk2 the guy selling it, who was very honest, said he had bought it from Classic Chrome a year or so before and it was now falling apart!

Upside2k, I think you've summarised my feelings very well! Its really a personal choice one makes based on useage, which I guess why the 'apples and oranges' comments. I find myself in the position of not actually knowing how I will really use the car so it adds to the complication/confusion. I will have a brand new diesel Volvo estate as my daily car, so that can be used for long trips etc. But then I fear the Pagoda will simply sit in the garage 9 times out of 10 and instead I want to use the 'nice' car as much as I can and enjoy it (unfortunately I cannot go to work with it...).

PS: There is a beautiful Havana Brown/cream LHD 230 at Silchester Garage... !

jameshoward · « **Reply #36 on:** January 31, 2008, 06:17:54 »

Silchester's cars are on ebay. I think there are 4 there at present. They have been there for a while (in excess of several months). There are 230's and 280's.

RGubbioli · « **Reply #37 on:** January 31, 2008, 06:32:15 »

quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward

Silchester's cars are on ebay. I think there are 4 there at present. They have been there for a while (in excess of several months). There are 230's and 280's.

Are you sure? I just did a quick search (mercedes pre 1970) on ebay.co.uk and couldn't find them.

JamesL · « **Reply #38 on:** January 31, 2008, 06:34:20 »

http://www.silchestergarage.co.uk/

This do?

jameshoward · « **Reply #39 on:** January 31, 2008, 07:21:28 »

I am sure, but 2 have gone since yesterday. They've been there a while so they may just need relisting.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedes-Benz-230SL-Pagoda-LHD_W0QQitemZ230191978364QQihZ013QQcategoryZ9855QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

rob walker · « **Reply #40 on:** January 31, 2008, 08:04:45 »

Riccardo, yes the Havana looks a nice car. If you do decide to progress further let us know there is much info on this site than can assist you make a very good judgement on any car.

Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey

France · « **Reply #41 on:** January 31, 2008, 09:57:33 »

James and all,

Further to my needling of James on the Scottish Events thread, the 230 had a 3.75 diff, unless it was a US car, in which case it was probably a 4.08. What a nightmare at autobahn speeds! The 3.27 diff can be found on the 108/280SE 4.5, but you must be very careful of wear. Our illustrious ja17 is an authority, and that's where I got my new diff. Eliptical wear knocks out a significant proportion of used diffs.

This is the best Pagoda modification I can imagine--well worth the investment--to make autobahn driving enjoyable.

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder seat
Sarasota FL; Alsace France; Switzerland
Think of your Pagoda as a woman with a past...stable now including a 92 911 Carrera 2 Tiptronic

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #42 on:** January 31, 2008, 11:53:00 »

quote:
Originally posted by France

James and all,

Further to my needling of James on the Scottish Events thread, the 230 had a 3.75 diff, unless it was a US car, in which case it was probably a 4.08. What a nightmare at autobahn speeds! The 3.27 diff can be found on the 108/280SE 4.5, but you must be very careful of wear. Our illustrious ja17 is an authority, and that's where I got my new diff. Eliptical wear knocks out a significant proportion of used diffs.

This is the best Pagoda modification I can imagine--well worth the investment--to make autobahn driving enjoyable.

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder seat
Sarasota FL; Alsace France; Switzerland
Think of your Pagoda as a woman with a past...stable now including a 92 911 Carrera 2 Tiptronic

Hey, France,
This mod may be OK for the flat lands of Fl. but will it get me up the Col du Turini because thats where I'd like to go with my Pagoda? :oops:
I have bought and stripped for rebuild a 3.46 LSD (with JA's advice of course) but have yet to build and fit!!

naj

68 280SL

jameshoward · « **Reply #43 on:** January 31, 2008, 12:08:38 »

Continuing with the drift from the topic (and probably to Riccard's immense relief) France, and anyone else who knows, how do I know what ratio a diff is by looking at it? The reason I ask is that I think I know where a 108 is lurking and I'd like first to check my own diff i.e. what gearing it has, and then I'd like to check that of the 108.

How do I know?

James

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2008, 12:58:47 »

quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward

Continuing with the drift from the topic (and probably to Riccard's immense relief) France, and anyone else who knows, how do I know what ratio a diff is by looking at it? The reason I ask is that I think I know where a 108 is lurking and I'd like first to check my own diff i.e. what gearing it has, and then I'd like to check that of the 108.

How do I know?

James

Look at the bottom left of the diff casing.
The casting is machined flat and the ratio will be stamped on it. It may also have the serial # on as well.

To be any use, the replacement diff will have to come from a V8 engined car (I think).

naj

68 280SL

J. Huber · « **Reply #45 on:** January 31, 2008, 15:27:22 »

All interesting comments. I have been following the discussion -- partly because I have asked myself the same thing (boxster vs 113). Of course, I already have the latter -- so I was thinking another depressing PPP - a post-Pagoda-possibility. (and shame on me, I also considered a new Mustang GT convertable).

The only reason I would get a boxster is it's the only Porsche I could afford "new." If I were to buy used, I'd be much more inclined to get either a 911 carerra cabriolet for speed and sportiness -- or a 356 for coolness. I think the Pagoda falls into the coolness category, even though mine is plenty sporty and fast for me.

James
63 230SL

Mike Hughes · « **Reply #46 on:** January 31, 2008, 17:10:40 »

quote:
Originally posted by rob walker

Riccardo, yes the Havana looks a nice car. If you do decide to progress further let us know there is much info on this site than can assist you make a very good judgement on any car.

Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey

I'll second that. Also it is the only other Havana Brown 230 SL that I have seen with the Cream Tex interior like mine. All the other Havana Brown 230SLs I have seen have the darker saddle or tan color interior. It also sports light beige hubcaps like mine, indicating a contrasting light beige hardtop might have come with it originally. I couldn't tell from the pictures or description if it now has the hardtop.

- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)

enochbell · « **Reply #47 on:** January 31, 2008, 17:31:23 »

Riccardo,

It is hard to add to the great advice already given, but here it is anyway:

Porsche is a driving experience that can not, imho, be equalled by anything else, even the exotics, for any of the air-cooled 911 models. I have owned 5 of them from '78 thru '95, and every one was more fun and more challenge than I could ever hope to meet. Very cool technology and performance that was a pleasure every time I turned the left-handed key. The experience is all about driving: steering with your right foot and trying to keep all that torque under delicate control.

That said, I appreciate my 230sl more than any of them. It is fun to drive, yes, but it obviously has nowhere near the performance. But it has HUGE grin value, for me that is a function of style, driveability, reliability, elegance, engineering and just plain fun.

Someday I may revisit a Porsche, it would have to be a turbo from the one of the last air-cooled models, but for now I am very happy with the pagoda.

Oh, did I forget to mention the Boxster? Sorry, that is not a Porsche, not even close, imho.

g

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

rob walker · « **Reply #48 on:** February 01, 2008, 08:29:34 »

And if you are really looking for a driving experience, then dont you have to go coupe as anything, with a soft top dilutes that experience! a bit hairdresserish......

hmm light blue touchpaper and wait!!!

Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey

RGubbioli · « **Reply #49 on:** February 01, 2008, 08:59:55 »

I've already had an aircooled 911 and, back then, I too used to deride the Boxster and even the 996 as 'not real Porsches'. These days I am more open minded and just see the Boxster and the latest 'water coolers' as the next evolution of the company. Whether the evolution is a good one is another matter, unfortunately almost all cars these days are nowhere as good under some aspects (soul, long term durability, individuality) as their predecessors. At the end of the day, I want a car that I like, don't care too much about the stigmas that are attached to them.

Am looking forward to seeing that Havana brown 230 tomorrow!

News:

Author Topic: W113 vs Boxster (Read 30853 times)

rob walker

glennard

RGubbioli

upside2k

Chad

rob walker

RGubbioli

RGubbioli

rob walker

enochbell

rob walker

RGubbioli