Which soft top vendor?

[cpmayor]

Hi. I am browsing for soft tops and am seeing GAHH priced much higher at $775 than either Miller's at $475 (monthly special) or Bud's at $550 (all in German canvas). Is there anything about the GAHH product that makes it more desirable than the others or is there anything wrong with the Miller's product? Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Thank you much for your help.

1968 MB 280SL (W113)
1987 Porsche 930
1995 BMW M3
2007 MB ML350

[paulr]

I have a GAHH top and it's pretty good. It's quite an important part of the car looks wise and so I would buy the best you can afford. The problem I find not buying at the top end, is that I would spend so much time wondering if I did the right thing. Would that crease be there if I'd spent more, would that small gap have been there ? That peace of mind is worth a lot to me.

I'm donating my other 2 cents worth to Nicks holiday fund.!

paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL

[hauser]

The GAHH top will probably fit better.  Gernold from SLTECH worked together with the people from GAHH to develop a better fitting top.  I  have the GAHH top on my car which was installed by Gernold.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[blue230sl]

my soft top has a thruming sound at higher speed. does anyone else have this?

john
64 230sl euro 4 spd
89 190e 2.6

[J. Huber]

My upholstery guy insists on using GAHH. Simply the best quality at the moment. And in the interest of stimulating the US economy, I'll be spending my upcoming "tax rebate" on a new top!

Related question: on the soft top above windows there are rubber seals. Not the frame to window seals but on the top itself. Do these come with the top? And is it a fact that the front seal will be destroyed and need to be replaced with the top? What about the rear seal? Thanks folks...

James
63 230SL

[paulr]

I have this, it drives me mad. GAHH top. I thought it was my imagination. Top fits beautifully mind you.

quote:Originally posted by blue230sl

my soft top has a thruming sound at higher speed. does anyone else have this?

john
64 230sl euro 4 spd
89 190e 2.6

paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL

[rwmastel]

Gernold is a really great source to talk with about soft tops.
http://www.sltechw113.com

We also have a member named Will Samples who knows quite a lot about them.  See contat info here at 190SL Group page:
http://www.190slgroup.com/s_&_s_imports.htm

At the Blacklick Tech Session, or PUB, Mr. Kemper installed a soft top at the event while we watched and talked with him.
http://www.kempersautotrim.com

The more people you talk with the more you will learn.

Rodd
Pagoda Technical Manual
please contibute: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php
1966 230SL
2006 C230 Sport Sedan

[J. Huber]

I'm still trying to figure out what a "thruming" sound is... can John or Paul (or Ringo for that matter) elaborate? My top is by no means air tight and one can hear a bit of road wind ... am I close?

James
63 230SL

[hauser]

My understanding of the "thrumming" is when air flows over a tight fitting canvas and creates a very distinctive sound.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[paulr]

At 40mph it sounds like this....vvvvrrrrrrrrrrhhhhvvvvvvrrrrrrr

and at 50 it's more like ..........rrrrrrrvvvvvvvhhhhhhhvvvvvvv


.

quote:Originally posted by J. Huber

I'm still trying to figure out what a "thruming" sound is... can John or Paul (or Ringo for that matter) elaborate? My top is by no means air tight and one can hear a bit of road wind ... am I close?

James
63 230SL

paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL

[blue230sl]

it's not just road noise; i can see a small section of the canvas rippling slightly between the wind shield and the next bow, and the sound is like a drumming sound...

john
64 230sl euro 4 spd
89 190e 2.6

[glennard]

PPP- (Persuasive Pagoda Persiflage) Caution- the Bernoulli Principle at work.  That's how a airplane wing works to lift the plane into the air.   DO NOT drive the car fast enough to create enough lift from the lowered air pressure above the top to lift the car from the road way.........or install wings and aerilons(sp).  Seriously, I think MB added another bow to anchor the flapping.

[blue230sl]

guess i'm stuck with it unless/until i can afford a new soft top frame  

john
64 230sl euro 4 spd
89 190e 2.6

[philmas]

And which supplier would you recommand on the old continent(asking our european members....)?

Philippe from Paris
'71 280SL manual 4sp

[Naj ✝︎]

quote:Originally posted by philmas

And which supplier would you recommand on the old continent(asking our european members....)?

Philippe from Paris
'71 280SL manual 4sp

This company is highly spoken of but I have no personal experience:

http://www.cabrio.de/Englisch/navi.htm

naj

68 280SL

[philmas]

What does "sonnenland" refer to? Is it a trade mark, the supplier's make, or the generic name for the fabric material (like "cashemere"... )
SLS offers (well, sells...) a "sonnenland" soft top as well.Do you think they're identical ?

Philippe from Paris
'71 280SL manual 4sp

[paulr]

Where is this extra bow fitted? Mine has become noisier since I had it replaced and nothing was left out in installation. The GAHH is beautifully made and appears to fit well so I would recommend it however this does seem to be a subtle fitting issue. I am interested where this extra bow fits in....?

ppp?

quote:Originally posted by glennard

PPP- (Persuasive Pagoda Persiflage) Caution- the Bernoulli Principle at work.  That's how a airplane wing works to lift the plane into the air.   DO NOT drive the car fast enough to create enough lift from the lowered air pressure above the top to lift the car from the road way.........or install wings and aerilons(sp).  Seriously, I think MB added another bow to anchor the flapping.

paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL

[jameshoward]

Philmas,

I have used the company Naj mentioned. I received my top just before Christmas and fitted it over the New Year. I am half way through writing an article for the Wiki but I must admit that I have let that job slip for work reasons.

I was very happy with Cabrio.de I can confirm that they make their own roofs. They also make roofs for most other companies in Germany. For example, SLS do not make their roofs in-house. SLS are also more expensive for the same roof than Cabrio.

James

[philmas]

Thank you for feedback.I'll probably go that way!

quote:Originally posted by jameshoward

Philmas,

I have used the company Naj mentioned. I received my top just before Christmas and fitted it over the New Year. I am half way through writing an article for the Wiki but I must admit that I have let that job slip for work reasons.

I was very happy with Cabrio.de I can confirm that they make their own roofs. They also make roofs for most other companies in Germany. For example, SLS do not make their roofs in-house. SLS are also more expensive for the same roof than Cabrio.

James

Philippe from Paris
'71 280SL manual 4sp

[paulr]

Update. The "thrumming" has been cured by the top being tightened so that the edge seam is now at the front of the roof instead of at the top edge. I guess it had stretched since fitting.

quote:Originally posted by paulr

Where is this extra bow fitted? Mine has become noisier since I had it replaced and nothing was left out in installation. The GAHH is beautifully made and appears to fit well so I would recommend it however this does seem to be a subtle fitting issue. I am interested where this extra bow fits in....?

ppp?

quote:Originally posted by glennard

PPP- (Persuasive Pagoda Persiflage) Caution- the Bernoulli Principle at work.  That's how a airplane wing works to lift the plane into the air.   DO NOT drive the car fast enough to create enough lift from the lowered air pressure above the top to lift the car from the road way.........or install wings and aerilons(sp).  Seriously, I think MB added another bow to anchor the flapping.

paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL

paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL

[willsam]

Here is the best info I have on actual German canvas material.  From a company brochure:  
Gebr. HAPPICH GmbH
HAPPICH-Sonnenland
Cabriolet-Verdeckstoff

Their translation next to it:
Hood Material for Convertibles

Looking in a German dictionary, Sonnenland is two words, Sonnen means sun and land means land as in dirt or soil.  Maybe the two combined make a new word but Babelfish translation says it means "sunning country".  I have also seen the word Sonnendeck used.

All you need to know is that the material is actual German canvas as I am told there is only one mfgr of the canvas and they supply everyone.  

As to who makes the best top?  Since everyone uses the same canvas it comes down to the top makers pattern and their idea of what is correct.  Before you buy a top, discuss it with the person that will install the top.  Every installer has a preference.  Currently, good tops are available from several sources, including GAHH, Robbins, Electron Top (for whom I am a dealer).  I know these companies actually take raw bulk canvas and cut/sew the tops.

I will always give club members a great deal if their installer is comfortable with installing a top made by Electron Top.  Just call me at 214-826-5977 and I will get you a current quote.  As you can imagine, the cost will depend on the price of material from Germany.

I am familiar with the drumming sound but have never heard it in a Mercedes.  Wet the canvas and dry in the hot sun, then drive the car to see if the drumming goes away.  That's all the advice I can offer.

Will Samples