Author Topic: My 230SL - Mirrors and Taillights (Read 7302 times)

franjo_66 · « **on:** April 22, 2008, 19:06:41 »

I'm in the final stages of putting my 1966 230SL together after a frame-off restoration.

Researching the info on my data card tells me that my car was ordered in 1965 for the Australian market. It was built in 1966, yet the VIN number (11304222009057) it quite low compared to other 1966 230SLs that are around the high teens mark (eg 11304222015876).

When I first started ordering new mirrors, etc, I thought that the previous owner had retro-fitted the later style 280SL door mirrors. However when my restoration shop stripped back the door panels, they noticed that the doors were still original, with the original paint (as per data card) and original mounting holes for the door mirror which indeed was the later style. I've been told that there were different tail light lens specifications for the Australian & Italian cars, but I can't confirm what that was.

Just curious that my car has an early VIN number (even though its a '66 and other '66 cars have much higher VIN 'numbers') or is this quite common with overseas orders (especially in far-away Australia). Leads me to wonder whether any other anomalies like this are common ?

Rgds
Frank
1966 230SL Black/Auto/RHD
1996 W210 E36 AMG

Richard Madison · « **Reply #1 on:** April 22, 2008, 20:32:26 »

The production schedule (supposedly reliable) indicates that the 230SL with VIN ending 9057 was produced in February 1965. It took some cars quite a long time until they were sold. (My previous car was sold about seven months after production). The Data Card should have the production date stamped on it.

The tail light situation is (to me) quite confusing. There were so called "all red" lights, lights with narrow center sections, lights with wide center sections, and maybe more.

Not sure which style lights are correct for the various models, years, and markets. The Tech Manual has some comments on this at

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Electrical.TailLights

Here are photos of two light styles:
The first photo is the light on my 1969 Italian market car. I'm not sure if the light is original to the car. The light is what I call a "Wide Center" style light.
Download Attachment:

RearLight69sml.jpg
10.33 KB

The second photo is a "Narrow Center" style light. The light in the photo was on a 1970 280SL but I've seen the "Narrow Center" style light on a 250SL and a 1964 230SL.
Download Attachment:

RearLight71sml.jpg
7.52 KB

The problem with tail light identification is that these lights are easily broken and often replaced making it difficult to pin down original styles of lights for various cars.

Richard M, NYC

franjo_66 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 22, 2008, 22:10:04 »

Hi Richard

Thanks for the response. I can see what you mean by the tail light specifications. Not sure whether Aussie-delivered cars would have had the wide or narrow centre styles ?

Further inspection of my order number details, states that the order was placed in australia and the year of sale/delivery was 1968 !! Must have been a delay somewhere !!!

Rgds
Frank

glennard · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2008, 06:44:20 »

Franjo, It was mailed March 1965, but the boat took a wrong turn at Cape Horn. Postage ran out. Got to Australia a little late. PPP- Ponderous Peripatetic Pagoda. Just adds to the PPP - Puzzling Pagoda Prestige. Pagodas kinda are a metaphor for five decades of history!

paulr · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2008, 07:43:20 »

what is this PPP all the time?

persistently poor posting?

ha ha

paulr
1970 280 SL

114015 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2008, 16:50:26 »

Franjo and Richard,

Don't talk to me about tail lights ... otherwise I am getting nervous!
I am definitely maniac on that topic and if I could I would collect 100s of red taillights.

OK.
Franjo is 1st.

The date stamped on your datacard is not the production date but the delivery date. My 114015 was 1st registered in Germany on 14 Sep 1971 and datacard says 15 Sep 1971. OK, what does that mean? That the car was already around produced on 13 Sep (and most likely sooner), registered on 14th and handed down to my uncle by the local DaimlerChrysler agent (Patberg & Co. in Lengerich, Germany) on 15th.
Most likely Richard is correct. Yours was built earlier (1965) and delivered in 1966.

As to your rearview mirrors.
I don't know about Australian cars but perhaps these came usually without rearview mirrors (like French cars) and your 280 SL mirrors were added afterwards. Of course the preowners had to drill holes for that and that is what you found out at your painter's shop. Please what does the data card say? Does it have any 50/x option code?

Now Richard.

Please, where was your car originally sold? What does the order line of your datacard read? 85xx yyyy? That's what I suggest. Ordered in 1968, delivered to Europa, perhaps Italy. Your taillights seem to be original to me if your car is older than serial no. 007397. All 280ies up to that serial had red taillights (including 230 & 250ies).

Red taillights means all-red-taillights, i.e. "wider center" ones.
But there are 2 exemptions, and you have one of these.
Cars for France: back-up light not clear but orange (amber) (rest = red)
and
cars for Australia and Italy (and I "believe" also from a certain date on to Britain - but the British know this better): turn-signal orange (amber) and rest like every ordinary red taillight.
Thus, your taillights on your "69" should be original. The change was with serial 007397 and 007398 in February 1969. Thus, your car is most likely a genuine 1968...

And Peter, ah yes ... :?
You may like to add this info to the WIKI section.
As I am already too stupid to mark correct font sizes it is better if you do that .... :evil:

Achim
(Magdeburg, Germany)

franjo_66 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2008, 17:08:12 »

Hi Achim

Thanks for the fountain of knowledge ! My datacard does not have any 50/x option code, so I guess my car was delivered without door mounted mirrors.

One mystery solved, onto the next.....

Thanks
Frank

Richard Madison · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2008, 18:20:23 »

Achim:

Thanks for your description of the taillights for Italy.

My car has VIN 7007 so it is in the "All Red" taillight zone. The Version Code on the Data Card is "620" for Italy and the production number (Auftrags) is 8543 4514. The 8 = 1968 order; 543 = Italy; 4514= dealer ID; so the car should have Italian style rear lights with Amber turn signal. The car does have this All-Red-Amber style...so it seems that the rear lights on the car are original.

Nice to know something on the car is correct!

Richard M, NYC

franjo_66 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2008, 21:08:02 »

And my tail-light mystery is solved also (thanks guys)

My option code of 619 states that the rear turn signal was orange ! So like Richards, I have the all-red-amber-turn-signal combo (in fact this was for UK/Aussie/Italian cars)

Rgds
Frank

hands_aus · « **Reply #9 on:** April 24, 2008, 06:35:13 »

My early 250sl has the orange turn signal lenses and it has the 280 style drivers side external rear view mirror.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
BEST OF THE BEST!

glennard · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2008, 07:35:03 »

PPP- Paul's Pagoda Persiflage

quote:
Originally posted by paulr

what is this PPP all the time?

persistently poor posting?

ha ha

paulr
1970 280 SL

114015 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 25, 2008, 16:29:57 »

Dear Richard,

Not exactly....

quote:
Originally posted by 280SL71

Achim:

The Version Code on the Data Card is "620" for Italy and the production number (Auftrags) is 8543 4514. The 8 = 1968 order; 543 = Italy; 4514= dealer ID

The 4514 is not the (Italian) dealer code but the 4514th running order coming from the General Italian Importer in 1968.
Only the German dealers (200 - 299 AFAIK) were diffentiated, the other European countries had just one (or a very few) 500 numbers.

Anyway, this is all correct on your car, so you cannot change to the all-red-taillights ...

Well, Bob, I guess, if you have 043-2x-000114 you know that your car should have come with a gooseneck rearview mirror...

Well, just keep it as it is (especially because it's the best of the best

)

Best (again),

Achim
(Magdeburg, Germany)

mbzse · « **Reply #12 on:** April 25, 2008, 23:30:43 »

quote:
Originally posted by 114015

Dear Richard,

Not exactly....

quote:
Originally posted by 280SL71

Achim:

The Version Code on the Data Card is "620" for Italy and the production number (Auftrags) is 8543 4514. The 8 = 1968 order; 543 = Italy; 4514= dealer ID
../..Only the German dealers (200 - 299 AFAIK) were diffentiated, the other European countries had just one (or a very few) 500 numbers. Achim

The listing of these Mercedes dealer codes worldwide can be found on Alex G's website here:
http://homepage.bluewin.ch/nitwit//tech/dealers.htm
Lots of other nice stuff there, too

.

/Hans in Sweden

Richard Madison · « **Reply #13 on:** April 26, 2008, 04:07:18 »

Achim:

The sequence number of my car for orders from Italy in 1968 is 4514.

Since only 7,000 280SL's were produced in 1968, I guess 4,514 is the number of all Mercedes cars, all models and all chassis types, ordered for Italian dealers.

From the sequence number, we cannot tell how many W113's went to Italy in 1968, is that correct?

Richard M, NYC

Eryck · « **Reply #14 on:** April 28, 2008, 10:31:37 »

My car was delivered to HK in 1965 w/o any side mirrors. A previous owner installed the later rectangular mirror. I spent a few months looking for a gooseneck and 3 mishaps on Ebay later (1 with kcigermany - needless to say more, and 1 misrepresentation that it was a R side but in fact it was a L side mirror), found one.

To my dismay, the rectangular mirror has a large base than the gooseneck and so I couldn't install the gooseneck without having a hole exposed - maybe someone miss-drilled before, I don't know as I didn't see the hole myself - was just told by my mechanic and he promptly re-installed the retangular mirror.

Anyone have a similar experience in retrofitting a gooseneck by replacing the rectangular mirror? I suppose that some paint job will need to be done to fill that hole. And what would one use to fill a hole on an aluminum door??

1965 230 SL White Manual
Hong Kong

franjo_66 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 28, 2008, 17:21:55 »

Eryck, like you my car was delivered without side mirrors, with the previous owner installing the previous owner installing the latter style mirror. I bought a set of goose-neck mirrors, but when I noticed that the mounting holes differed, I made the decision to leave the latter styles ones on, as opposed to undertaking the panel work needed to fill the old holes, etc.

Somehow, I like the latter style mirrors, and will keep the originals stored safely with other items I've accummulated

Rgds
Frank

Longtooth · « **Reply #16 on:** April 29, 2008, 00:48:06 »

Frank,
fyi, your VIN 113 042 ...9057 was produced between Jan. 29,'65 (VIN 9045) and Feb. 2, '65 (VIN 9089).
Ref: Egelen's Vom Barok zur Pagode

What makes you believe you have a '66 year model 230SL? The last 2 months of production in '65 had VIN's starting with 13979 (Nov 3, '65) thru 14444 (Dec 7, '65). Ref: Ibid.

On the question of how many W113's went to Italy from the '68 production year, I can't give an answer, but Engelen's book's stats narrows it down a bit to Non-German, Non-US exports.

In '68, 6930 280SL's were produced.
Of these, 5287 280SL's were exported.
Of these exported versions, 3290 were US Exports

By subtraction therefore, 1997 '68 280SL's were exported to locations other than the US.... Italy, Austrailia, England, France, Sweden, Denmark, Neatherlands, Spain, Hong Kong, South America, South Africa, Near East, etc, etc, etc. Consider that the internal German consumption was only 1643 of the '68 280SL's... about 1/2 the US export market. It stands to reason therefore that any individual country in Europe may have had some small fraction of the German consumption market... say 10% or at most 20%??? or on the order perhaps of 200? - 400? or so? a pure W.A.G.

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
The 6% Club - Best of the Best
'02 SL500 Sport

hands_aus · « **Reply #17 on:** April 29, 2008, 04:24:19 »

quote:

Well, Bob, I guess, if you have 043-2x-000114 you know that your car should have come with a gooseneck rearview mirror...

Well, just keep it as it is (especially because it's the best of the best )

Best (again),

Achim
(Magdeburg, Germany)

Hey Achim,
I am the 3rd owner of my car VIN 113043 22 000114, you have a good memory.

I checked the original owners service book and there is a 13 year period where no information is documented.
Anything is possible in that period.
I have thought of trying to contact the original owner who is in Sydney and ask if they remember why the hiaitus.
What do you think mate?
I like the existing mirror arrangement.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
BEST OF THE BEST!

franjo_66 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 29, 2008, 16:39:26 »

Hi Longtooth

I have always referred to my 230SL as a '66, as that it was is stated as on my registration title (ie year of build), an obvious mistake (it also has an extra digit added to the engine number!), so I don't hold much faith with the accuracy of the road authorities records down under here in Australia.

What really stands out is that the car was ordered in 1964 (not 1965), and by looking at the country / dealer / regional / year numbers on my datacard it was either sold/delivered in 1968 ?

So thanks Longtooth, I have now updated my profile accordingly !

Rgds
Frank
1965 230SL Black/RHD/Auto
1996 W210 E36 AMG

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Author Topic: My 230SL - Mirrors and Taillights (Read 7302 times)

glennard

paulr

glennard

Eryck

Longtooth