Author Topic: Bonus question-butterfly switch  (Read 7881 times)

glennard

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Bonus question-butterfly switch
« on: June 02, 2008, 05:19:07 »
"Tempur's" pix of his 230SL show a electrical switch on the outside end of the throttle butterfly.  Anybody have the wiring diagram for this?

ja17

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2008, 21:32:24 »
Hello glennard,

This sounds like it is  the venturi switch which regulates the position of the three position solenoid on the automatic transmission.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

glennard

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2008, 16:16:20 »
Joe,  Bingo!!!  It and the kickdown switch control the two positions.

hands_aus

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 04:46:28 »
http://www.mercedesdismantlers.com/16BoltInstallationInstructions.html

This link shows the use of the throttle body switch for auto trasnsmissions
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best

wwheeler

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 15:43:56 »
I have been trying to figure out what that switch does. Thank you!

What effect does the switch have on the transmission shifts at open throttle vs. closed throttle?
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

glennard

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2008, 15:51:21 »
Thanx---  My small, slow, aged mind is looking for more detail.  The throttle switch has two wires, the kick down has ??.  How is it actually wired and how should all these switches, soleniods, the tranny work,etc perform?
 
Putting the auto tranny in gear gooses the CSS.  This flips the throttle s/w.   What else?


quote:
Originally posted by hands_aus

http://www.mercedesdismantlers.com/16BoltInstallationInstructions.html

This link shows the use of the throttle body switch for auto trasnsmissions


glennard

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2008, 15:55:03 »
Yes, This is a new can of worms on the Forum???  Inquiring minds want to know----



quote:
Originally posted by wwheeler

I have been trying to figure out what that switch does. Thank you!

What effect does the switch have on the transmission shifts at open throttle vs. closed throttle?


ja17

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2008, 00:04:29 »
Hello Glenn and Wallace,

Actually the "venturi switch" has been an active topic on this forum. It is one of the essential ingrediants to having proper linkage adjustment. It is critical to the proper shifting of the automatic transmissions. Improperly adusted linkages can result in an improperly functioning switch which may cause the transmission shifts to be harsh and late. The last downshift before a stop may be very abrupt.

There is not much detailed documentation on the system but it is fairly straight forward. This "venturi swich" along with the "kick down switch" (passing gear) activate a three position solenoid on the automatic transmission. This three position solenoid  moves a linkage rod which raises or lowers modulator pressure in the transmission. The change in pressure influences when the tranmission shifts, and shift quality (firmness, harshness, smoothness etc,) by raising and lowering the pressure.

The venturi switch should be adjusted to activate the three position solenoid on the tranmsission to position "1" (lower position)at idle thus lowering the pressure in the transmission. As soon as the accelerator is depressed the solenoid moves to position "2" (middle position), raising the transmission pressure. The solenoid will move to position "3" (uper position) if the accelerator pedal activates the  "kick down switch" thus raising the pressure even more. With the ignition off the three position solenoid is at rest in position "2".

Another  problem to watch out for are frozen linkages or solenoid at the transmission whcih can render the solenoid useless.

Read the "linkage tour" for more information on setting up your venturi swich.

On the later cars with standard tranmissions, the venturi swich was used fot the fuel shut off solenoid on the injection pump, in place of the earlier fire wall "micro switch".

The link Bob has posted gives an even more in depth description of parts of the system.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 00:11:16 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

glennard

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2008, 09:46:40 »
Joe et al, Re: Figrin stuff out.  First is the determination of what combination of factory options and how it 'should' work?.  Next, is the determination of 'shade tree' improvements installed by enlighted frontier mechanics.  The guy with a 280SE injin in a 250SL body(or is it the other way?) is classic.  And fixing it over the Internet and thousands of miles.  Shows we are the supreme optimists!

wwheeler

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 12:07:38 »
Thanks Joe! That makes perfect sense. I will check the operation of the solenoid to make sure it works as described. One question. Can you adjust the venturi switch or do you just adjust the venturi stop screw and the switch follows suit?

Wallace
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

rwmastel

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 19:45:10 »
Adjust the flap so it closes fully, but does not bind at all.  Some people incorrectly use that adjustment (leaving extra air coming in) to compensate for some other problem (rich running).
Rodd

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Cees Klumper

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Re: Bonus question-butterfly switch
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2008, 16:52:16 »
quote:
Originally posted by hands_aus

http://www.mercedesdismantlers.com/16BoltInstallationInstructions.html
This link shows the use of the throttle body switch for auto trasnsmissions


I used this link this evening to restore the functioning of my 3-position solenoid which a mechanic that (only) once worked on my car had disconnected (that is to say they disconnected the microswitch that in my car is mounted on the firewall). It all works fine again now and particularly the downshifting got a bit smoother.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II