HELP Pls! Am I making a big mistake

[erb_cid]

Hi. I'm new to this forum but definitely enjoyed reading what in it so far. I live in Virginia and I'm currently looking at this 1966 230 SL in my neighbourhood

  http://www.classiccarcenter.net/Mercedes230SL.html

The seller has agreed to lower the price by to 13.5, but I am not still quite sure this is a good buy (being clueless about mechanical issues and rust repair). I'm currently waiting for my financing company to approve a loan but wanted to check with you guys for advice.  Just to be clear, I'm  not looking at a comestically perfect car (and cant afford one) but merely want  a realiable daily driver that will give me a good 3 to 5 years of pleasant driving experience before I decide whether to sink in a fortunte to fix it. Your advice will be much appercaited, esepcailly  frankn advice whether I should run!

[abe280SL]

Get an professional inspection above all.  Becareful for RUST RUST RUST.  Mechanical stuff can be fixed....rust and body work costs alot more to fix.\ Use our brain and not emotions to buy...another one will show up if you don't buy this one.  It took me one year to buy my Porsche 83SC. It does look very nice in the picture and 13.5 sounds great.  
my 2 cents, abe

[scoot]

I agree with Abe.  I think the car has been repainted (where is the parallel set of side molding?) and I'm concerned about the pictures that look like the underside of the car but painted the body color.  What's underneith that I wonder....   I would also look under the carpets in front and behind/under the seat, and in the area under the rear parcel shelves.  Look around under the trunk matt. Get someone to inspect the car for rust, and if it really isn't bad then it looks like a really nice car for the money.

[Mike Hughes]

I have a couple of acquaintances in the British Car scene in central Virginia who know of this shop.  They have a decent reputation but, as you can see by surfing through their site, they do not specialize in just one make, or even nationality, of car.  If you can get someone with W113-specific knowledge to check the car out independently, do it, but DO pay particular attention to all the rust that they have taken pains to point out in the pictures posted.  There is more lurking behind there and in other places you can't see!

[benzportland]

Run.  And never buy without an inspection, and make sure it is a full "in the shop" inspection, not one of those "safety inspections" which looks at the seatbelts and does not do a compression check.  Mechanicals are costly and almost no one repairs such things before they sell a vehicle.  Think in terms of fuel delivery, brakes, etc.  The car is over 40 years old.  Even if you could do some of the work yourself, I would just bet you could drop 3,000 under the hood in the blink of an eye.  And then, you would still have the rust....

[zoegrlh]

I live in Williamsburg, VA.  I assume somewhat near you.  I always like to see what is on the Virginia market in W113s.  I do have a question about this SL.  It is a 230SL, but the tire boot is that of a 280SL (horizonal on the passenger's side, not vertical on the driver's side.  Can't explain this, anyway I would be glad to help you with your selection.  I have restored my 280SL over the last 6 years, all my self,  so I can give you some pointers.
Bob

[glennard]

Mid model change for the 230's tire.

[erb_cid]

Thanks so much to everyone for the tips. Would still love to hear from others. Forgot to add that the carpet and wood trim are worn, there are scratches on the paint and a dent on the trunk. The current owner is a mechanic but not for Mercedes cars

Bob- Unfortunately I live in Arlington closer to DC but if you are available or know anyone who knows 113s and can check this car out at the location, I’d be happy to pay for inspection (as suggested by Abe, Scoot and Benz Portland) and buy you or him a good lunch    Aso let me know if there are any other 113s in our Area that is worth looking at and any good MB mechanic in the area. Also would love to hear your thoughts about this car.

Mike- You are right that the dealership has a decent reputation and the people are very transparent, although again this is not their car and when I talked to them they don’t seem to know much (at least not as much as the people in this group!) about 113s

Scoot, Abe, BenzPortland- will definitely take your advice on the inspection

Glennard- would love to hear your thoughts on this one and on how this compares to the Red 280 in Philly that the gentleman from Germany is looking at in this same thread (i tnik also for $13.5)

[hkollan]

Hi,

Take Benzportland's advice and run. Cheap cars like this are seldom bargains, and this one looks to be having serious trouble areas.
Unless you are looking for a project car, and are able/willing to spend a lot of your own time and money, keep searching.

[peterm]

I differ in my opinion-  If your looking for an appreciating asset than run away if you want a depreciating asset which may give you value until it falls apart this may be an option.  It looks as though it will hold togetehr for the near future and likley is a 10 footer,  Meaning it looks good from 10 feet.  From a mechanical standpoint many issues can be easily addressed while others can be expensive  thats where i'd make my decision.  Rust is a cancer but it would take a long time to kill the car, needless to say dont drive it in the rain or youll get wet feet

[J. Huber]

Peter makes some good points. Not speaking directly to this car but more generally, there is (or should be) a market for cars that have some issues -- but are still roadworthy. It is very easy to become myopic when we click around here because we have so many very nice Pagodas that grace these pages. The reality is there are a whole array of cars out there. In my little Pagoda Mind, I'd break it into about 5 categories.

Category 1: At the top are those absolute beauties that are either perfectly restored or somehow perfectly preserved. Range? 60K and above.

Category 2: These are cars that are in A-one shape but if you look hard enough, there are some things that have fallen from perfect to excellent. Don't get me wrong, these are to die for. Range: 40-60K.

Category 3: These are really nice drivers. Everything looks very nice, most things updated, the car runs well, and it is as solid as can be. These could be elevated to Category 2 with a little TLC. Range: 25-35K.

Category 4: These are drivers that have some issues but are usable. They can be freshened up as needed, worked on to get to running well, and are generally very usable. Sure they have flaws but they are on the road and the driver is enjoying the ride. Range: at the moment 10 to 25K. Obviously there is a lot of variation in this one.

Category 5: Project time. May run for a while -- probably rusty -- to get out and drive with confidence, you'll need to do some work. Range: below 10.

Of course, there will be exceptions.

[Lilly]

This '66 230 SL's spare wheel passenger's side location and horizontal position are factory correct.  My '66 230 SL's spare wheel and its location and position are identical and hasn't changed at any time.  My German-American grandmother took delivery of the car in person in Stuttgart when it rolled out of the factory new in July of 1966.  One thing that has been tampered with is the ten-thousandth digit 6 of the odometer's mileage counter;  look closely and you'll see that its font size is different meaning that the odometer has been dismantled and its ten-thousandth digit replaced.  This isn't necessarily a deceptive act - the fragile (nylon or plastic) digit's gear teeth do break with age and repeated exposure to below freezing temperatures which causes them to stop counting mileage and require replacement.

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by Lilly

One thing that has been tampered with is the ten-thousandth digit 6 of the odometer's mileage counter;  look closely and you'll see that its font size is different meaning that the odometer has been dismantled and its ten-thousandth digit replaced.

Lilly,
If you look even closer you will see there is a small notch beside the "6" digit.  This is there for the mechanisim in the back to grab on to and turn over the next digit in the sequence.  When the "6" is in the back, the "0" is in the front and therefor the next number needs to turn.

This is the way they are built.

[perry113]

This car compared to the red one which has been talked about on another thread ($13500 being looked at from a guy from Germany) looks tons better.

The interior on this one looks to be all original. I like that. That would be nice to think it hasn't been all monkey'd up.

You really need to have someone look at the car. However, for $13500 it looks like a bargain assuming it's roadworthy. Rust will always be worse than you think, but this car looks presentable. Like someone else on this thread said, keep it out of the rain.

The interior can be redyed and carpets replaced (using original square weave) and it will look like a time warp with patina. I did this with my car and saved myself $$. I used the SEM dye kit (which we applyied after careful disection of the interior components using a professional paint spray system. I have had so many nice compliments about having an original interior that's still intact. The top of the dash and seat can be repaired (I have a connection here in Albany NY.)

I always say buy the best you can find. This car, however, could be a nice buy all else considered.
Best of luck.

Peter Perry
1965 230SL White Ivory/Green
1972 911T Coupe Albert Blue
1959 MGA Orient Red
1951 MGTD
1971 Chevy Caprice

[erb_cid]

Thanks so much to everyone who chimed in. I finally bought the car!!! Did the due diligence as you all sugested and brought to car to an MB mechanic who happens to own a 280 SL. We drove the car (man the guy drives fast!) and he did the inspection, raised it etc.The rust turned out not to be that serious of an issue. He said the car is actually in a better condition as it looks- the mechanicals are in very good condition  (except that I might need to replace in a few months the oil pressure hose which is abit cracked and the rusty brake and fuel metal lines- forgot to ask him how much it costs to do this but he mentioned that this is just labor). Im really very happy with the car-something I can afford and enjoy for several years. I guess I have to start somewhere. Many thanks again for all the helpful advice

[rwmastel]

Congratulations!

Let us know how much work you plan on doing yourself.  There is a long list of things a new owner should check (if not done during the pre-purchase inspection).  If you don't do them yourself, you at lease need to sound intelligent when talking with your mechanic.

Things to do to get to know your car:
- Call the MB Classic Center in the USA and request a data card.  Decipher the data on the card using resources available here.
- Examine the build plate in the inner driver's side fender (near the windshield washer bottle) and decipher the plate using resources available here.

Inspections/Maintenance:
- Check in fuel tank for rust.
- Replace fuel filters.
- Check oil filter cannister for ALL seals, particularly the "garden hose" style seal.
- Check compression so you have a baseline for future tests.

More later.....

[jameshoward]

I think you may have got a bargain!

[Douglas]

That was a good buy. Congrats on a smart move.

[Mike Hughes]

Well bought!  I'm glad that you were able to get someone who knows Pagodas to check it out for you and that the rust is so minimal.  Once you get the mechanical bits you mention straightened out be sure to have the rust attended to so that it doesn't spread and get expensive.  But don't just cover it up; cut it out and let in fresh metal and take steps to protect it from rusting again.  Most important:  Have fun with it!