Author Topic: early sun visor clips ? (color selection) (Read 35869 times)

benzportland · « **Reply #25 on:** June 25, 2008, 22:31:35 »

Finally got my pics loaded - see below

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

Well Alfred, yes it looks like I am the proud owner of that clip. I figured it at least looks like my old ones -- and since one of mine is still decent, I have a back-up pair. You could be right about mine being from a sedan but I'd be curious what other early 230s look like. Jaco? or Paul or Achim may be able to help...

My three definitely have a hex base. To really complicate things, I notice the clip on Gernold's SL Tech page is yet another style...

waqas · « **Reply #26 on:** June 25, 2008, 23:48:47 »

Looks like your clips are identical to mine. (the colour of mine appears to be a light beige/tan), matching my 210 "natural leather" interior. Incidentally, my car is also a '65 230sl, with chassis nr. 010052. Perhaps they had different versions over the years of production?

quote:
Originally posted by benzportland

I am thinking part of the confusion might be the different orientation of the pictures. I've taken some of mine, which comes from a '65 230, chassis no. 009988 (March 29, 1965). It did not have a metal clip/insert, it is solid. On the underside are the characters "GHE" and "113." The length of the base is 4.5 cm, height is 2.7, width of base is 1.6. So, based on these pics I am thinking this could be a third version for the 230sl.

~~Can't get pics to load at this time will have to try later.~~

Download Attachment: .JPG"] MVC-810F[1].JPG
137.33 KB

Download Attachment: .JPG"] MVC-811F[1].JPG
159.47 KB

Download Attachment: .JPG"] MVC-812F[1].JPG
126.45 KB

Download Attachment: .JPG"] MVC-813F[1].JPG
179.18 KB

66andBlue · « **Reply #27 on:** June 26, 2008, 00:16:20 »

Hi Waqas,
what I had in mind was a picture of the clips in your W111. Got any that you can post?

benzportland · « **Reply #28 on:** June 26, 2008, 00:27:56 »

Quote

Originally posted by waqas

Looks like your clips are identical to mine. Perhaps they had different versions over the years of production?

I am thinking there must have been at least three versions for the 230sl.

waqas · « **Reply #29 on:** June 26, 2008, 06:26:52 »

Hi Alfred,

Sounds like a good idea. I'll post some later today.

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

Hi Waqas,
what I had in mind was a picture of the clips in your W111. Got any that you can post?

jacovdw · « **Reply #30 on:** June 26, 2008, 10:17:48 »

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

but I'd be curious what other early 230s look like. Jaco? or Paul or Achim may be able to help...

James,

I have been following this thread with interest. Unfortunately, the previous owner used sunvisors and clips from a sedan [

!]

So, I guess that I'm in for a new set of sunvisors and clips... :?

benzportland · « **Reply #31 on:** June 26, 2008, 20:35:05 »

With potentially three versions, I am not sure which one to reproduce. I would prefer mine with the 113 markings and no inner clip, and I assume this would work on others as well. Wondering if anyone is still interested.

scoot · « **Reply #32 on:** June 28, 2008, 16:55:42 »

quote:
Originally posted by benzportland

With potentially three versions, I am not sure which one to reproduce. I would prefer mine with the 113 markings and no inner clip, and I assume this would work on others as well. Wondering if anyone is still interested.

I actually would like the one with the metal clip inside, or at least to compare them back-to-back and see if the footprint is the same and the angle of the slot is the same...

waqas · « **Reply #33 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:50:57 »

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

Hi Waqas,
what I had in mind was a picture of the clips in your W111. Got any that you can post?

Finally got around to this. Apologies in advance for the poor photograph. These are from my 1966 250SE/Coupe. They are mounted to the roof, not the windshield frame.

Download Attachment:

IMG_5168-small.jpg
173.72 KB

They are very different from the my 1965 230SL sunvisor clips, which are a one-piece plastic affair without the metal insert and with "113" engraved underneath, and look similarly slanted as the clips shown on the right in Scoot's picture here:

Scoot's Clips

Note that the coupe and sedan clips are mounted to the roof, not the windshield frame. This might explain why they are not slanted like the 113 clips. I'd be interested to know whether the 111 cabriolet clips are similar to the 113 clips or not.

It looks like the classic center is selling only the coupe and sedan clips, and not the 113-specific slanted ones. It also appears that the 113 clips come in two varieties: with and without metal insert, but both slanted. The horizontal clips are clearly for the sedan and coupes.

wwheeler · « **Reply #34 on:** June 30, 2008, 14:30:32 »

Waqas,

My '68 111 coupe visor clips have the same look as your '66 coupe clips. The big difference is that my metal insert is different and I have cone shaped metal washers that fit under the pan head screws. My metal insert is a "U" shape that fits inside the plastic clip just where the visor pops into the clip and nowhere else. The metal insert is what provides the spring fit for the visor. I recently replaced mine (from the Classic Center) and they were exactly as the originals. Just a little more info.

66andBlue · « **Reply #35 on:** June 30, 2008, 23:34:51 »

quote:
Originally posted by benzportland
With potentially three versions, I am not sure which one to reproduce. ...

Hold your horses, benzportland, we are still in the discovery phase, are we not?

Looking at spare parts lists for the 230SL I can only find one part number for the clip: 113 811 0140.
That p/n was good till halfway through the 250SL production run (actually until chassis number 2979, so early 250SL and 230SL should have the same clip) when it was replaced by p/n 113 811 0240, which is also correct for the 280SL.
Now it is possible that there was a 113 811 0040, perhaps a preproduction number, or an actual valid number for very early 230SLs.
Could this be Huber's hexagonal clip?? Looks like his clip didn't come from a coupe and could be an original one.
But somehow it looks too big for me ... :?:
Anyone out there with an original very early 230SL who could post a picture please???

114015 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 01, 2008, 04:53:10 »

Dear Friends,

Very good observations up to here.
Alfred, Scott & benzportland are correct. Only the flat style slanted sunvisor clips are correct for the 230/250 SL up to serial 002979.
The old ones that James had in his white 230 SL are not correct. Either 280 SL or /8 sedan or anything else.
The new replacement is also not correct - sedan style as you mentioned.

The clips that came off my parted-out 1963 230 are clearly the solid type, not more really grey but they have faded to a more tan color, are very brittle and almost like solid rubber & have the 113GHE embossment (GHE = Gebrueder Happich, Elberfeld).

The ones of the '64 are a little different, not solid but hollow and have the metal clip inside.
Alfred is right, the number for the 230/250-early part never changed, still these are "variants" (this is the case for many parts where the parts number never changed ... e.g. ashtray).

I have a few of these clips flying around anywhere, most are old. I will check them again the upcoming weekend...
But I am confident, there are no additional findings to what we already have here.

In summary:
230 SL/250 SL up to serial 002979:
one part number (113 811 0140), two different versions:
Old style is solid, newer style is more plastic, nonsolid but with internal metal clip.

Then there is the later style 250 SL late/280 SL clip (113 811 0240)which looks more (ore identical?) to James old ones.

Best,
Achim

J. Huber · « **Reply #37 on:** July 01, 2008, 11:55:22 »

Hey Achim. Great information as always! I am ready to concede my original grey clips were not "original" in the real sense of the word. Impossible to know when they were changed. Pretty sure it had to be pre-1980. The only thing that puzzles me is the Ebay vendor's description for the exact one to mine as "early 113." Sure he could be misinformed -- but it is an interesting coincidence.

Does anyone else (any model) have the hex based clips?

egggplant · « **Reply #38 on:** July 03, 2008, 13:27:55 »

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

Now it is possible that there was a 113 811 0040, perhaps a preproduction number, or an actual valid number for very early 230SLs.

Hi 66andBlue:

Good post. I have an original MBZ 230SL parts manual. It shows:
"113 811 00 40 replaced by 113 811 01 40"

I doubt the part number would be included just for preproduction cars.

66andBlue · « **Reply #39 on:** July 03, 2008, 15:47:47 »

quote:
Originally posted by egggplant

...I have an original MBZ 230SL parts manual. It shows:
"113 811 00 40 replaced by 113 811 01 40" ...

Excellent!
Now what we need is a picture of this early 0040 clip.
And a correct part number for the hexagonal clip would be helpful too.

waqas · « **Reply #40 on:** July 03, 2008, 16:48:30 »

My dealer parts manual (230sl, Edition C, 10126) only lists the 113 811 0140 part, but refers to a footnote that says: "up to chassis 011207".

It says nothing about what part number is used after that chassis number. Very odd.

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

quote:
Originally posted by egggplant

...I have an original MBZ 230SL parts manual. It shows:
"113 811 00 40 replaced by 113 811 01 40" ...

Excellent!
Now what we need is a picture of this early 0040 clip.
And a correct part number for the hexagonal clip would be helpful too.

waqas · « **Reply #41 on:** July 03, 2008, 16:55:35 »

My dealer parts manual for the 250sl/280sl (Edition B, 10142) lists the following parts:

250 SL:
113 811 0140 up to chassis 002979
113 811 0240 from chassis 002980

280 SL:
113 811 0240 for all chassis numbers

114015 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 04, 2008, 13:47:50 »

Agree with Waqas.

Everything else is very odd.
Eggplant, which "original parts manual" are you referring to? There are only three factory ones and the one Waqas cites (Edition C, 10126 as of January 1967) is the last offical one. It is still valid by the way ...

Achim

egggplant · « **Reply #43 on:** July 04, 2008, 17:35:25 »

quote:
Originally posted by 114015

Agree with Waqas.

Everything else is very odd.
Eggplant, which "original parts manual" are you referring to?

Achim

The parts book I have is Edition B, November 1964

Graham

66andBlue · « **Reply #44 on:** July 04, 2008, 17:52:15 »

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

.. I am ready to concede my original grey clips were not "original" in the real sense of the word. Impossible to know when they were changed. Pretty sure it had to be pre-1980...

Hello James,
no concessions necessary

but you are correct, they are pre-1980. They are most likely from a W108 model (250S, 250SE,280S,280SE, 280SEL). I have a parts "Catalog A" for the W108 which shows a hexagonal clip:

Now going back to the initial post, benzportland are you still planning to reproduce the clip? I would like to get one as long as it has the tilt. It is not absolutely necessary to have the metal clip but it needs to grip the visor.

J. Huber · « **Reply #45 on:** July 04, 2008, 21:21:13 »

Hey Alfred. Well, that certainly looks like the beast! It's not far-fetched that a PO needed a quick clip -- and that maybe the 108s were easier to come by.

Anyway, I have received my new old non-original one to go with my original non-original old one... huh? :?:

waqas · « **Reply #46 on:** July 08, 2008, 07:10:51 »

quote:
Originally posted by benzportland

My thinking is that the version without the metal clip would obviously be easier to reproduce (assuming those with metal clips would also need metal clips made). I'm not sure what would be involved with reproducing the metal clip but perhaps someone else out there would have some ideas?

The version with the metal clip would probably be more durable. I wonder if the metal clip from a new clip can be modified to have the slant?

66andBlue · « **Reply #47 on:** July 09, 2008, 21:45:07 »

Since "scoot" has a pair of the clips that are currently sold by MB (solid body, without the metal inser) he could answer some questions and do a test to help us out here.
1. When you hold the clip with your hands does its groove grip the visor firmly? Or can you shake it loose? If the clip has a good grip then we can assume that the metal insert is not necessary.
2. Would you be willing to take a drill bit and grind the groove in such a way that it now slants as the old one does? I'd be curious whether that is all that is necessary to make the thing fit.

If those two tests are somewhat satisfactory then I suggest to make a replica of a solid clip without metal insert and with the correct horizontal and vertical slants.

waqas · « **Reply #48 on:** July 10, 2008, 07:54:02 »

Part of the problem with the solid plastic clips is that they get brittle with age and then break off. I suspect the ones with the metal insert will be less prone to this. Of course, better plastics should be able to prevent this from happening...

scoot · « **Reply #49 on:** July 10, 2008, 09:33:50 »

quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue

Since "scoot" has a pair of the clips that are currently sold by MB (solid body, without the metal inser) he could answer some questions and do a test to help us out here.
1. When you hold the clip with your hands does its groove grip the visor firmly? Or can you shake it loose? If the clip has a good grip then we can assume that the metal insert is not necessary.
2. Would you be willing to take a drill bit and grind the groove in such a way that it now slants as the old one does? I'd be curious whether that is all that is necessary to make the thing fit.

If those two tests are somewhat satisfactory then I suggest to make a replica of a solid clip without metal insert and with the correct horizontal and vertical slants.

1. If the clip isn't attached to the car, but just to the visor, I believe it would hold onto it successfully. When I experimented with them, I had the clip attached to the car and it would not hold the visor in place, but that was because the visor rod came into the clip at an angle rather than completely horizontal as the clip is designed.
2. I think that one could do that with the clip (just to see if it works) but I think it would look like crap. Of course if it were just to see if it fits so that reproductions could be made, it might serve that purpose. I can't do this since I have returned the clips already.

My suggestion is that if you are going to fabricate the clip, use one of the existing old clips as the model rather than drilling one of the new ones -- I think it would be far more accurate, with or without the metal insert.

News:

Author Topic: early sun visor clips ? (color selection) (Read 35869 times)

benzportland

benzportland

jacovdw

benzportland

egggplant

egggplant