Author Topic: Losing water  (Read 17293 times)

fcannas

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Losing water
« on: July 01, 2008, 12:26:55 »
Dear All,

Im experiencing this problem.

I fullfill my water reservoir and make a few km's and the car loses a lot of water...

Considering that the motor has 1200 km's i suppose the gasket its ok...

Is there any other ideas what could cause this...I have changed the thermostat for anew one 1 year ago...!!!

Thanks
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 18:17:20 by 280SL71 »

Richard Madison

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Re: Losing water
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 12:45:29 »
Here are some obvious questions: is the car losing water from a hose? or from the radiator?

Is there a wet spot under the car after you refill it and the car has been sitting for a while?  Does it lose water only when it is being driven or does water go down when the car is parked?

Richard M, NYC
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

Longtooth

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Re: Losing water
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 00:44:09 »
Be sure to check the oil in the valve/cam cover --- hope your water loss isn't due to crack in the block that allows it into the oil passages.  If you remove the valve cover cap (screwed on cap) and look for frothy creamish colored stuff.  If any of your coolant leak is due to a crack in the block between a coolant and oil passage, you'll see this frothy stuff accumulated in varying degrees depending on how much water is leaking into the oil passage.

We presume you're talking about a W113... what model?  Who rebuilt the engine 1200 km's ago?

Run engine for awhile to heat it up nicely without moving the car... watch engine temperature and look for water spray or leak dripping to floor. Rev engine up to 2-3k rpm for awhile, car still stationary to heat up engine more... i.e. heat coolant more and continue looking for leak detections --- spray / mist / drips / steam in engine compartment and under car, and in passenger compartment.

Other Possibilities:

1. Radiator leak - if so you'll see dried coolant (presuming you're using glycerol additive) on area's of engine and possibly hood underside spray out.

2. Hose leak - a) at any water hose clamp in the system. This includes the heater core connections; b) at crack in a hose.
3. Over filling expansion tank -- if you're overfilling the expansion tank the expanded water under pressure blows out the expansion tank overflow ... hence "reduced" coolant level in the expansion tank.

4. Overheating --- watch the water temperature gage... it shouldn't get much above the 180 mark on a short drive.  If it's getting close to or reaching the red mark you're overheating the engine... probably because of coolant loss during driving or because coolant isn't circulating.... if not circulating sufficiently check the water pump.

5. Oil/water heat exchanger (also called "oil cooler") - crack in oil/water heat exchanger water jacket... this is for 250SL engines.  Not sure about 230SL's or 280SL's.

Can't think of the other possibilities offhand.

fcannas

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Re: Losing water
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 17:42:29 »
Thanks for all your info and help...

My car its a 230 sl from 64...

It was overhauled by a good mechanic here in Portugal...everything was made by the book...

The temp goes around 90 dg celsius  that's when i figure the car its out of water..." until the moment its not completely out of water because i catch the problem ...

I put the car running and wait that it goes around 80 degrees, that 's its normal temperature when the deposit its full...

Last day..i have made this test and after the temp reach 80 degrees i stopped the car and opened the water deposit and the water boiled and made gases...it seemed like it didnt passed in all the circuit...maybe that's the problem and because of that the water runs out from the tube of the water deposit....Maybe the thermostat dont open...

I have never experienced the car temperature above 90 degrees i dont think that the block or the head are broken... caused by overheating...

Any other ideas?

Thank's for your help...

I hope i have made a good description, my english its not very good...





Longtooth

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Re: Losing water
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2008, 02:42:18 »
fcannas, your english is understood... and don't worry 'bout it... I can't speak a single word of Portugese, much less read or write it.

Your initial statement was that the car's losing a lot of coolant.

The implied question is: Why? or What's causing the coolant loss?

When coolant reaches normal operating temperature (approx. 180F or 80C) or greater, then removing the coolant reservior cap will always cause coolant in the reservior to "boil over" so to speak.  This is normal and expected.  I can explain the reason why this occurs but it's irrevelant to your question or it's answer, so I'll refrain.

To most easily discern (figure out) how coolant is being lost, you should do the following:

Run engine for awhile to heat it up nicely (80C at idle with car stationary -- not moving... without moving the car... watch engine temperature and look for water spray or leak dripping to floor or steam, or water in passenger compartment on floor.

If nothing happens for awhile while coolant temperature is at about 80C... you see no water on floor or spray of mist or water dripping anywhere, including the interior passenger & driver  compartment floor, then you need to heat the coolant up to approx. 85C (185F) and keep observing for leaks on floor, mist, spray, steam coming from somewhere (where the leak's occurring).
 
To heat the car up to 85C place a sheet of cardboard in front of the radiator grill ... about 8.5" x 11" or standard notebook size sheet.  This will reduce the cooling capability of the radiator and let coolant temperature rise toward 85C - 90C.  Watch temperature gage and keep looking for leak or evidence of coolant escaping the cooling system.  DON'T LET TEMPERATURE REACH THE RED MARK .... if it approaches the red mark KEEP ENGINE RUNNING and QUICKLY REMOVE THE CARDBOARD SHEET from the radiator and increase RPM to cool engine back down before shutting off the engine.

All the above must be done with car not moving (not being driven) so you can see where or begin to find out where the coolant is leaking from.

If there's no observed leaking at 85C, then increase temperature of coolant to 90C (195F) by placing another 1/2 sheet of cardboard over the radiator grill and repeat above observations  You should also increase engine rpm intermittantly (occasionally).... press on accelerator pedal or use the control shaft/levers in the engine compartment.  Increasing engine rpm to 2500 - 3000 or so will simulate the driving conditions and increase coolant pressures and flow.

BUT you MUST check the underside of the valve cover (cam cover) cap --- the cap you unscrew (remove) where you normally add oil to the engine.  You MUST do this BEFORE you start looking for the leak source.  IF the underside of the valve cover cap is creamy colored goo or you see water droplets on it, then the coolant loss is do to a crack in the block or head or head gasket.  If that's the case, return car to the mechanic that rebuilt the engine and ask for your money back.

fcannas

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Re: Losing water
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2008, 04:45:54 »
Dear Longthooth

It seems you are right and this means very bad news for me...


I took the cap from the head gasket and checkek that the oil was creamy...which confirms your suspection...

So there's a passage of water into the motor...caused i dont discovered yet for what...

Do you thinks that something broken for overheating or caused by other consequence?


Thanks for your help


glennard

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Re: Losing water
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 13:02:47 »
Re-torque the 14 head bolts and 3 cap screws?  Just a last ditch try---
  Also change oil-don't run with water in the oil.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 13:04:12 by glennard »

fcannas

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Re: Losing water
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2008, 14:15:48 »
Thank you Glennard for your help...

Could be possible that, because i sent the block and the cyl head to be rectified the original cyl head gasket doesnt fit ok?

Normally we should re torque the head after 1500 km when you do a major  a major overhaul ...right?

Thanks

Cees Klumper

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Re: Losing water
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2008, 18:17:48 »
Frederico - there are two different styles of cylinder heads on the 280 SL (oval and square shaped combustion chambers); I would imagine that the mechanic used a proper new head gasket when re-assembling the engine but maybe he made a mistake. It sounds like the engine needs to be taken back out and thoroughly checked (or at least the head removed) to find out why coolant is making its way into the engine. I would not run it any more until this is resolved; running at very high temperatures is not good, especially not with all of the new parts and machine shop work that's gone into the engine. It may just be something not too complicated.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 18:19:00 by cees klumper »
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

fcannas

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Re: Losing water
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2008, 09:47:04 »
Dear Cees Klumper,

My car its  a 230 sl from 64,

I have asked the gasket from sls...I think it was the correct one...!!!

Kind regards