123 Distributor

[bpossel]

Hi All!
It's been awhile and I wanted to update you on the “123” installation in my car.  It’s been a real challenge, nothing to do with the “123”, rather just my car.

In summary, all is working great! With my emission system now fully functional, I have the “123” set on curve “E”, timing set at 8 degrees ATDC at idle (~800rpm in park & ~750 in gear).  I am only able to get a max of 25 BTDC @ 3,000 rpms…  CO% at idle ~5.2% (seems to run better a bit richer…)
What my original issue was, a previous owner had installed a “009” distributor in my car, cut the wire which connects the speed relay to the coil, which caused my 2-way valve not to kick in at ~2200 rpms.  I believe the previous owner installed the "009" when the original Pertronix was installed.  Pertronix didnt make a version for the "062"?

With the “009” it also masked a lean condition on the IP, which surfaced when I set the timing back to 8 degrees ATDC.  The engine was coughing between ~1100 & ~2000. 
So with the new “123” installed, timing set correctly per spec, and ip adjusted (in my case more rich), the engine now runs pretty good!  The shifting on the transmission is also now much smoother, with no more “kick” on the final downshift as I come to a stop.
If you decide to upgrade your distributor to a “123”, let me know if I can help answer any questions.  I am not an expert, but with some experience, I may be able to save you some time.  I can also recommend a USA distributor for the “123” if needed.
Bob 

[Peter van Es]

Pleased to hear it, Bob!

Peter

[jpressick]

I have a 250SL and am considering a 123 distributor. After reading all the discussions on the Forum I am convinced that is the way to go. Has anyone bought the 123 on ebay where it is cheaper and if so what were the results? 

[bpossel]

I purchased mine from John Parker at Vintage Performance Developments and paid less then the current eBay ad.
You can contact him at "jparker3@twcny.rr.com".  Very nice & helpful guy!

I would only suggest that you first try to have your original distributor rebuilt.  This is what I did, and mine was not fixable, so the 123 was a good option for me.

Good Luck and let us know if you have any further questions...
Bob 

[jpressick]

Thanks Bob,  I have been told that if the 123 is bought " off the shelf" the base of the 123 has to be machined to fit properly in the block and also the wires need to be modified.  Have you heard about this and did you run into these problems?  By the way I did contact John Parker but he is currently out of the 123.  Thanks again, Jim

[bpossel]

Yes, John P, as well as others will most likely not "stock" the 123 distributors.  They will take your request and place an order for it.  I dont think the 123 folks sell directly?  You will need to be patient, as the order could take 6+ weeks...  Mine took that long, but some of that delay was due to the holidays.

I did not modify the wiring or have to machine to fit.  Just hooked the 2 wires straight to the coil.

I do believe the earlier W113's had a separate collar that clamps the distributor in place and that if you turn this collar around that it will fit without any other changes..  My 280SL's collar is integrated into the distributor housing and didnt require any mods.

Peter, others, any comments on the earlier W113's?

Bob 

[wwheeler]

I bought the 123 distributor for my '68 280 SE 111. The person I purchased it from machines the base as Jim indicated and includes wires to by-pass the ballast resistor. I was told as well that the machining was done in order for the clamp to fit correctly and they insisted that it needed to be done.

When I went to install the distributor with the machined recess, I could not understand why it was needed. I was somewhat annoyed to because the bases are nickle plated and when it was machined, the aluminum was then exposed. Not a big problem but when you are paying that much for something, you want it to be right. The by-pass wires were handy and it does work well.

[bpossel]

Seems odd?  I am currently running with the "123".  Have ~300 miles on it and it works perfectly.  My "123" only came with 2 wires for a direct connect to the coil (no ballast required.  Coil must be at least 1 ohm primary resistance). I also installed the "123" right out of the box without any machining required.  I just had to set the curve level via the adjustment screw on the bottom of the unit.
Anyone else have any comments on this?
Bob 

[Cees Klumper]

Mine fit right in, no machining or superfluous wires. All I had to do was set the advance curve switch inside the unit, hook it up and set the static timing to get it running, then fine-tuned with the timing light. A idle, the engine is noticeably smoother now. I believe I posted my install-experience in this thread a few months ago.

[awolff280sl]

I remember the person who sold me the 123 had me place my 058 next to the 123 distributor on the bench.  I saw that the distance from where they would contact the collar to the tip  of the drive dog was a few milllimeters shorter for the 123. Grinding the undersurface of the 123 is apparently done to allow the dog to engage deeper into the helical gear. Based upon what I'm reading here, the dog must be sufficiently engaged without any modification.   

[mbzse]

I bought the 123 distributor.../... I was told that the machining was done in order for the clamp to fit correctly and they insisted that it needed to be done.
When I went to install the distributor with the machined recess, I could not understand why it was needed.

The 123 housing will be caught on the clamp, and thus the device will not reach down deep enough
The shaft of the distributor needs to reach down fully into the mounting recess. This is in order for
the dog tooth drive to engage properly, and for the drive shaft/gear to stay in position, and not come upwards.
This is important! Distributor will work initially, but fail with time

On any W113 other than late 280SL:s, the housing does not need to be machined however. On 230SL, 250SL and early 280SL cars,
a simple way to achieve the same is to
bend the clamp piece as per the attached picture. This is best done by putting it in a vice and hammer it into shape (see pics).

To turn this clamp upside down is another method - however this makes the locking screw hard to reach (it will face the radiator and the spinning fan...)
For mounting 123 into late 280SL:s - see postings entered later!
/Hans in Sweden

[bpossel]

 ???What years, models of W113's had the separate collar for the distibutor?

It looks like what we are saying is that the "later" W113's that used the 1 piece distributor housing (collar integrated) does not require any modifications.  The earlier models with 2 piece housing (collar separate) requires modification.

Bob 

[awolff280sl]

OR, that any modification for the later 113s would have to be done on the 123 itself since the collar cannot be inverted or bent flat.

[Naj ✝︎]

???What years, models of W113's had the separate collar for the distibutor?

It looks like what we are saying is that the "later" W113's that used the 1 piece distributor housing (collar integrated) does not require any modifications.  The earlier models with 2 piece housing (collar separate) requires modification.

Bob 

Not sure when the separate collar was discontinued but here's what it looks like:

Note how the clamp interferes with the 123 housing.

[mbzse]

It looks like what we are saying is that the "later" W113's that used the 1 piece distributor housing (collar integrated)
does not require any modifications.  The earlier models with 2 piece housing (collar separate) requires modification

Yes guys, thanks for this reminder. I just plain forgot that late production cars did away with the collar -
thus owners of such cars enter a different situation when it comes to mounting the 123-distributor

What years, models of W113's had the separate collar for the distibutor?

All 280SL mount a M130.983 engine. The late 280SL cars lacked this separate distributor shaft clamp

Change over Engine Numbers when clamp fell away are:
Manual transmission engine No 7 516
Automatic transmission engine No 14 136
Please don't ask me to translate this to 280SL chassis No's 
But an indication is, the last 4 000 or so 280SL:s were delivered without the clamp

/Hans in Sweden

[scp]

Forgive me if this has been answered before - not yet clear to me based on my searches.

I have a 1968 280SL built in March 1968.  I assume it does not have a transistorized ignition (please verify if known).

I recently purchased a 123 distributor in hopes of avoiding future issues and would like to know the following prior to installing (and possibly burning out something expensive):

1) which new bosch coil to purchase (red, blue, or silver for transistorized ignitions)?
   - some European sites recommend the blue one (e.g. http://www.leenapk.nl/product_details.php?item_id=4&language_code=en)
   - some US sites recommend the red one (e.g. http://www.brooklyn300.com/123ignition/introducing123)
2) what resistor to use (if any)?  As above, there does not seem to be agreement based on google and 113 searches
3) is there a way (and benefit) to adding transistorized ignition?  If so, how to do and is it worth it?
   - if added, does it change the answer to my first question on coils?
4) anything else that must or should be updated at the same time the 123 distributor is added?

Thanks to everyone for all the kind help to date.

Cheers,
- SCP

[awolff280sl]

Hi,
1. I'm using the red coil.
2. I've jumped my resistor.
3. Your 1968 would not have original transistorized ignition. If using a 123, you would not need transisitorized ignition.
4. The only issue I can think of is the question of the collar which has been discussed above and in other posts on the 123.

My 123 has been functioning flawlessly. I set it and forgot it.

[bpossel]

SCP,

Like Andy, my "123" works great!  As he mentioned, check the posts on this site for the distributor collar adjustment.
Also measure the primary resistance of your coil. If it is lower than 1 ohm you need to use another coil, if it is 1 ohm or more it is ok to use it.
The "123" likes the full 12 volts, so no need for the ballast resistors, they can be removed. Use the "123" curve setting "8" for your setup.
Good Luck!
bob

[jeffc280sl]

Another satisfied 123Ignition customer.  Arrived this afternoon.  Its installed and just got back from a 15 minute spirited drive.  The engine is noticably smoother.  Will do final timing and idle adjustment tomorrow.

[tuultyme]

Jeff and Bob
Did you leave your speed relay hooked up and does the system still work?  on 70 and 71 cars.

[bpossel]

Hello Bruce!

Yes, I am running the '123' with all emissions equipment connected (speed relay, 2-way valve, etc).  Vacuum port on the '123' is connected to my 2-way valve.  I did disconnect the fuel shut-off solenoid.  With the emissions "stuff" all working correctly, leaving it connected along with the '123' worked best for me.

I know others are running the '123' w/o their emissions equip. connected and theirs also runs good. I believe that with this setup, the idle rpms will be a bit higher, since the 2-way valve is no longer reducing the vacuum.

My in-gear idle is 750, my out-of-gear idle is 1,000 rpms.

Let me know if you need any add'l info.

Bob 

[The Hawaiian]

Bob:

I have a 1970 280SL and have read with interest the many 123 threads.  Your post has been invaluable since I too have the transistorized ignition.  My last question is in respect to the spring that fits into the bottom of the distributor.   I have read that the original spring will not work with the 123 distributor and to source that via a hardware store.  Did your source provide the new spring, or did you use the old spring, or no spring at all?  Thanks in advance (no pun intended).

Norman Howard

[bpossel]

Hello Norman,

Per the '123' mfg in the Netherlands, no spring is needed, thus they don't supply the spring.  I just didnt understand "no spring is needed" ?  MB installed a spring between the distributor drive gear and the bottom of the distributor for a reason?  Seems like the spring is to cushion the 2 parts as they spin and the drive gear moves slightly up & down.

The '123' has a recess of ~10mm on its bottom.  I took the original spring to my local hardware store (my local, good 'ole fashion Mayberry hardware store...) and they matched the original spring (# of windings, tension) with one that was an add'l 10mm in length.  I dont recall the original MB spring length, maybe 10mm, so the new one is ~20mm...  It's best to pull out your original and take it with you as you locate the longer one...

I want to also clarify that I disconnected my MB transistor box.  I am running the '123' straight off my coil (1.8 ohm). No ballasts either. Gernold warned me that without any ballasts that I shouldn't leave my key on too long without starting the engine up.  It could burn up the '123'. 

To date, I have 2,600 miles on the car since installing the '123' and it runs really nicely.

Please let me know if you have any add'l questions...
Bob   

[jeffc280sl]

I concur with everything Bob said.  My 123 is installed without a spring and my emission setup is just like Bob's.  I also understandf his comments about not leaving the key on.  I can hear the 123 clicking away sometimes if the key is in the on position.  Don't imagine its doing anything good to the 123 in this condition.

[Eminent]

Well, today i changed the original distributor for the 123.
It's indeed a great improvement. The engine idle's steady now, no more backfire when i decelerate, run's smooth on LPG.
But i have a few questions though.
I also replaced the coil for the red coil from Bosch.
This coil has a resistance of 1.7 ohm
The coil is now connected to (what i think) the orginal resistor.
It is wired form there to terminal number 15 at the coil.
It's located below the coil and has a resistance of 1.3 ohm.
So what i do best.
Connect the coil with no resisitor at all to get the best spark, leave it connected to the original resistor or use the 1.8 ohm resistor from Bosch?
The text on the coil warned to use it only with a resistor.
Thanks in advance.
Rini.