Author Topic: Door pockets  (Read 18589 times)

thelews

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, WI, Mequon
  • Posts: 1955
Door pockets
« on: December 21, 2008, 03:24:01 »
What is "European" about the door pocket?  
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 21:39:13 by thelews »
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

J. Huber

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Cedar Ridge
  • Posts: 3061
Door pockets
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2008, 03:44:39 »
Not to divert too much but I found it interesting that John's car has a screw under the arm rest. Anyone with 230SL hard pockets have that screw? Or maybe a 250 thing?
James
63 230SL

hauser

  • Guest
Door pockets
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2008, 04:05:32 »
James, I just checked my 280sl Euro and no screw.  I don't know if it is supposed to be there or not.  If it was placed by the po perhaps to strengthen the door pull?  John's car is a pristine example and perhaps we should have more members check their cars.

scoot

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Altadena
  • Posts: 2355
Door pockets
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2008, 06:22:11 »
Not to divert too much but I found it interesting that John's car has a screw under the arm rest. Anyone with 230SL hard pockets have that screw? Or maybe a 250 thing?
Our 250 does not have a screw there...
Scott Allen
'67 250 SL (early)
Altadena, California

scoot

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Altadena
  • Posts: 2355
Door pockets
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2008, 06:24:32 »
Scott, hard pockets were the standard throughout the 113 except last two years for US bound cars which had the mandated soft pockets.
I didn't know that.  I assumed that the hard pockets switched to soft pockets at the same time as the other interior changes in the middle of the 250 production...  Thanks for the info.
Scott Allen
'67 250 SL (early)
Altadena, California

scoot

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Altadena
  • Posts: 2355
Door pockets
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2008, 06:36:17 »
So the SLS parts would correspond to MB A 113 727 01 82   and A 113 727 02 82    which show as available, MSRP $210, discount dealer price $189 each.     On a side note, my EPCnet shows soft pockets on 250 SLs and later, and hard pockets on 230 SLs.  It should be smarter than that...
Scott Allen
'67 250 SL (early)
Altadena, California

Raymond

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, FL, Jacksonville
  • Posts: 1206
    • GemstoneMediaInc.com
Door pockets
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2008, 14:57:18 »
I believe the EPC is correct.  My '68 280 is #000176 and has original soft pockets. 
Ray
'68 280SL 5-spd "California" Coupe

scoot

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Altadena
  • Posts: 2355
Door pockets
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2008, 16:11:27 »
I believe the EPC is correct.  My '68 280 is #000176 and has original soft pockets. 
Naaaa, EPC is only half correct.  It should know by VIN which parts are applicable to a car, and it shows the soft pockets for all 250 SLs, which is wrong.    Can anyone else comment as to whether the change from hard to soft door pocket occurred with the other interior changes in the middle of the 250 SL run?
Scott Allen
'67 250 SL (early)
Altadena, California

pauldridge

  • Guest
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2008, 23:18:26 »
My '70 Euro 280SL has hard pockets

thelews

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, WI, Mequon
  • Posts: 1955
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2008, 23:59:49 »
Naaaa, EPC is only half correct.  It should know by VIN which parts are applicable to a car, and it shows the soft pockets for all 250 SLs, which is wrong.    Can anyone else comment as to whether the change from hard to soft door pocket occurred with the other interior changes in the middle of the 250 SL run?

From www.silverstarrestorations.com

August 1967

    * Interior door handle, lock, window crank changed (the 1967 250SL had the same door hardware as the 230SL; the 1968 250SL had the same door hardware as the 280SL.

And, I would place a bet that the previous owner of my 250 did NOT put an extra screw in the door panel.  He was a stickler for originality, and these panels are original.  I'd bet in the 250s without the the screw, the panel was redone and the screw forgotten.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

66andBlue

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Solana Beach
  • Posts: 4735
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2008, 00:21:44 »
The switch from the hard pocket to the soft pocket on US cars was made during the 250SL production run beginning with chassis number 02980.
Engelen lists it as the first change among 23 total changes.  Also the spare parts list [Edition C] for the 250 SL/280SL indicates that switch (footnote 5 in Group 72). For example, the left door lining p/n was 113 720 0570 (MB-Tex covered) and changed to 113 720 2170 for 250SL (043) and to 113 720 2970 for the later 280SL (044).
That switch apparently was not made on European 250SL cars and if it was ever made on Euro280SL then perhaps only at the end of the run, or perhaps to some countries only. I believe that Sweden for example had different safety requirements, maybe  Hans can add to this.

The fixing screw shown on John's 250SL was used on all doors with hard pockets although it is not clear from the Edition A of the spare parts list for the 230SL whether very early models had the screw and the bar inside to attach it to.
Since the driver side door has no grab handle the pocket is sometimes used to close it and that screw provides additional anchoring, however, it should be on both doors.
The p/n for the sheet metal screw: 007 983 004251 and for the countersunk washer: 900 056 004508.
There is a vertical bar attached to the door frame with a hole at the bottom to accept the screw.
But is not always easy to find it behind the panel!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 02:26:21 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

CraigD

  • Inactive
  • Senior
  • ***
  • USA, WA, Lake Tapps, WA
  • Posts: 189
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2008, 01:26:48 »
I just checked my '70 Euro, and it does have a screw beneath the armrest too.
Craig
'70 280SL Euro
'55 300S Roadster
'29 Franklin Speedster
'37 Cord S/C Cabriolet (RHD)

thelews

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, WI, Mequon
  • Posts: 1955
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2008, 02:09:14 »
Since the driver side door has no grab handle the pocket is used to close it and that screw provides additional anchoring, however, it should be on both doors.

The screw is on both doors.  I use the armrest rather than the pocket on the driver's door to close it, which would put the stress right at the screw. 
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

J. Huber

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Cedar Ridge
  • Posts: 3061
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2008, 03:22:17 »
Well, for the sake of discussion> my 1963 does not have the screw but does have both grab handles. Original panels I am almost certain. Next time I have them off I will check for the bracket behind. What is the date of the parts catalog that shows the screws, I wonder?
James
63 230SL

66andBlue

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Solana Beach
  • Posts: 4735
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2008, 05:01:15 »
James,
the date for Edition C of my 230SL parts book is Jan 1967 it lists the p/n. Edition A from Jul 1963 does NOT list the p/n for the screw and washer. That is the reason why I wrote that the early 230SL may not have had those screws as your car seems to demonstrate.
You wrote "..but does have both grab handles". What do you mean with both? John's picture shows the grab handle on the right door. Do you have one also on the driver door?? Or did you refer to the armrests?
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Dash808

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, HI, Kaneohe
  • Posts: 320
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2008, 08:23:26 »
I had to look since my interior is original and I have the screw too.
Late '67 250sl Euro, hard pockets.   
Chan Johnson
'67 250sl
Napoli Italian Euro

Bang Bang Booogie!

J. Huber

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Cedar Ridge
  • Posts: 3061
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2008, 17:30:46 »
Hey Alfred. Yes my car has grips on both sides. This has been a topic of discussion before -- it seems several (but maybe not all?) very early cars had grips on both sides. The 230SL promotional video here shows them -- and while some have speculated that was a proto-type, I have seen a few others with this feature. The driver's side grip is slightly shallower -- probably to keep one's knee from hitting on the way out. Here are a couple angles. The passenger side shows the different profile. (and you may recognize the windowcranks!)
James
63 230SL

66andBlue

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Solana Beach
  • Posts: 4735
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2008, 21:33:46 »
..  Yes my car has grips on both sides. This has been a topic of discussion before --

Thanks James, I found the previous discussion: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=4740.0
Also found out why the driver side handle is shallower. The 230SL  parts list shows:
P/N 113 810 0454 Hand rail (on right door in case of L.H.D, on left door in case of L.H.D)
P/N 111 810 8054 Hand rail (on left door in case of L.H.D, on right door in case of L.H.D)

So, the driver side handle is identical with those on the 111 cars, and incidentally, it was also used for the 2 hardtop handles.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

66andBlue

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Solana Beach
  • Posts: 4735
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2008, 19:12:17 »
This material has been added into the Technical Manual: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Interior.DoorTrim
Please let me know if you spot mistakes and feel free to add more.
Thanks!
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

J. Huber

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Cedar Ridge
  • Posts: 3061
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2008, 19:35:51 »
Excellent work! Thank you.

So, I think this is an appropriate time to segue into another question. Has anyone purchased new door panels from GAHH or other vendors we can trust? I know the boards can be bought for fairly cheap, and I know we can get the upholstery by the yard -- but having it already in place sounds appealing. Any experiences?
James
63 230SL

69280sl

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, IL, Elk Grove
  • Posts: 568
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2008, 03:52:06 »
James: My experience with new door panels (from World Upholstery) was not good. I reported it at the time in another thread, but essentially, the "boards" are thicker than the originals. Also, the vinyl is thicker and it is doubled across the edge of the board. The net result is that they won't fit into the channels at the bottom and front without a lot of prying open the chrome channels and beating on the boards to force them in.. Others have made them work, but I threw mine away. Poorer but wiser.

I would give serious thought to sending your original boards to be recovered. There were some vendors who offered that service but I don't know if they still do.
Gus

68 280sl, signal red/ beige/black softtop. Car # 1084

J. Huber

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Cedar Ridge
  • Posts: 3061
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2008, 05:33:59 »
Thanks Gus, good insight. My problem is my boards are horribly warped. As you can see from my pics, the upholstery is not bad for original. Some small tears around the armrest and door locks but overall not bad. That's why I left them when I re-did my interior. What the photos don't show so well is the curvature of the boards. Clearly water got in the doors over the years and did a number on them. I have had them out and tried lots of things including steaming them in shower (oh, the look on the wife's face with that one!)... followed by lots of weight to flatten them. It helped some but not much. I asked the guy who did my top and he strongly recommended new pre-covered panels -- suggesting that using old upholstery is not too viable.
James
63 230SL

66andBlue

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Solana Beach
  • Posts: 4735
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2008, 18:48:00 »
James,
I bought my hard boards from a German Co (http://www.werner-interieur.de/html/e_w_113_-_230-280_sl.html) and covered them with pre-cut leather lining. Their price is now Euro 59 (incl.VAT) per board and they fit perfectly.  GAHH lists them for $97/board on the website but you probably can get them cheaper when you buy through a GAHH dealer (K&K, D. Gallon).  I would call the company and ask whether their boards come with the alignment notches.
Buying an already finished panel cuts down work but you may have the troubles that Gus describes. It might be best to buy the panel and the pre-cut liner with the padded horizontal stripe sown in and you do the finishing. In that way you can check the fit before you start, bevel the edges more if necessary, etc.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

J. Huber

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Cedar Ridge
  • Posts: 3061
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2008, 21:27:06 »
Alfred, by horizontal pad are you referring to the stitched area on the upper portion about where the door lock is? I wonder if GAHH sells this pre-cut liner unattached? Thanks for the input!
James
63 230SL

tuultyme

  • Guest
Re: Door pockets
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2008, 01:28:11 »
When I replaced my door boards I had to taper the edge to get the recovered panels to fit into the metal channel.  On the drivers door i had to shorten the board just a little and make the leather fabric extend just a little past the edge before folding it back onto itself in order to get it to fit right.  I also had to extend the lower front edge a little to make it straight to the door channel.  I also did this by extending out the leather before folding it back on itself.